posted
Possibly, others have run across this issue, but in recent pre-painted panels I've bought, the finish is, I believe, powder coated, rather than painted.
I've had adhesion problems, with trying to paint or letter on it. I'm hesitant to try scuffing the surface, since the coating is so thin. Anybody got any suggestions, or is this something else we're going to have to live with?
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
powder coating may not be the problem. its what they do after the powder coating. some spray em with a coating to keep from getting scratched. i notice if you wipe with 91% alcohol it tends to soften the powder coating. so i wouldnt wipe with any thing more then mineral spirits.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Sorry......they're aluminum panels; some are single sheet .040 that used to be baked enamel. Others are the sandwich...thin aluminum sheet, with some type of plastic core; also used to be baked enamel.
Joe, I wiped them down with Rapid Prep....real good. Then did some border painting and some highlights. Next day, you could wipe the paint off with your fingernail, or even put a piece of masking tape on it lightly, lift it off, and the paint comes with it.
I'd almost rather use something that would soften the coating a little, might give it some tooth.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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dale.....did you PEEL THE PLASTIC PROTECTIVE SHEET OFF THE PANEL????? ask those who went to sign meet at mark fairs place))))) mark had put up a wall of aluminum panels think was 8 ft tall x 16- 20 feet. all white panels. someone started to paint on it and had the same problem as you did.....THEN THEY DISCOVERED THE CLEAR PLASTIC SCRATCH PROTECTIVE SHEET OF THIN PLASTIC!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I think the earth just stood still for a second.... I agree with OP. Some of those panels have a protective sheet so clear you can't tell it's there by looking at it.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Please guys, give me a break! I do stupid crap on a regular basis.....but that's not one of them.
The composite panels have a white plastic film on them,with printing on it...hard not to miss. The .040 panels have a white film on them, but it was taken off also.
These recent panels, of both kinds, have more of a satin sheen, rather than the gloss of the baked enamel. Somewhere, I saw where someone said they were now powder coated, and that stuff can be a real beeatch to touch up (like on a race car frame). I was just curious to see if anyone had run into this problem, and had a solution?
I'm guessing maybe this is more of the "green" crap, that's ruining so much of our lives today.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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look really close, that satin look is a dead givaway..its got a plastic coating on it....... WITH NO WRITING... I SAY THIS BECAUSE... i get .040 aluminum 4 X 10 sheets from town and country alum products.... IT HAS A THIN PLASTIC FILM....BOTH SIDES NO WRITING, unless you get a exacto knife and dig in any corner......it will come up..you gota peel it all off.
[ December 05, 2013, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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OK.....let me make this as simple as I can. First of all, there is NO film on the aluminum. In the top photo, you can see the red material, with the film pulled down. You can tell somewhat by the reflection, the red is not real shiny, especially when compared to the yellow (film also OFF) or the white....which are both the baked enamel.
In the second photo, there is an older sign for the same customer, done 5 years ago, on the panels with the baked enamel, and you can still see a bright reflection in it.
The bottom photo is of the new material, and you can see the reflection is barely there, even tho there are cars parked nearby. It just has a more satiny, slick finish.
These products were all bought from the same supplier (Tubelite) over a period of time. But...my quandary still remains...if this is powder coated, what can be done to make sure the paint sticks?
posted
1st try wiping with turp, mineral spirits. next try 91% alcohol....DO A CORNER, make sure it dont soften the paint, it it dont wipe it down with that. next would to get some 1000-1200 sandpaper, and lightly hit the areas where you will put the new paint..... if this fails, i would take panel to a body shop or you can spray it with automotive ARYLIC ENAMEL PAINT, i know that holds up.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi Dale, I understand what you're saying. I found the same issue. The satin or matt surface is often on the bottom-priced end of the cheap scale of panels, or on the reverse side of the quality panels.
My solution was to scuff it a bit to give the surface a tooth for the paint to grip onto. You could try a few drips of Penetrol also.
Wiping it with any amount of chemicals made no difference when I tried, ad there wasn't a contaminant as the problem - just a dodgy or non-receptive surface.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Thanks Ian, my supplier is looking into how these panels are currently being finished. They are definitely not cheap; these red ones were around $80 each. And I'm surely not about to pay again to have them painted....especially not knowing whether or not the new paint will even stick. I'm still thinking they are powder coated, rather than painted as in the past. All these phony environmental disasters and overboard precautions have caused a giant kneejerk reaction on the part of many of our suppliers. Supposedly, this is more environmentally friendly than paint....at least until they find some hokey reason to tell us it isn't.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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Next week I'm gonna do a sign on DiBond, painted background. Before I paint, I hit the surface very hard with a red scotchbrite pad, followed by a wipe with Pre-Kleano or simlar. Then another wipe with glass cleaner. Ya just gotta give the new paint something to grab into.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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from what I recall of trying to get paint to stick to powder coated bike frames ,...give it up it won't happen,....for some reason paint refuses to stick well to the stuff,..ask a few folks here who have tried to stripe the bike frames with powder coating they may have a new solution but if memory serves me right we couldn't get anything to stick,without scuffing the surface and that will show in the finish
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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from what I recall of trying to get paint to stick to powder coated bike frames ,...give it up it won't happen,....for some reason paint refuses to stick well to the stuff,..powder coating is just the pigment portion of paint baked onto the metal,..ask a few folks here who have tried to stripe the bike frames with powder coating they may have a new solution but if memory serves me right we couldn't get anything to stick,without scuffing the surface and that will show in the finish
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
from what I recall of trying to get paint to stick to powder coated bike frames ,...give it up it won't happen,....for some reason paint refuses to stick well to the stuff,..powder coating is just the pigment portion of paint baked onto the metal,..ask a few folks here who have tried to stripe the bike frames with powder coating they may have a new solution but if memory serves me right we couldn't get anything to stick,without scuffing the surface and that will show in the finish
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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i get sheets of aluminum .040 from TOWN AND COUNTRY ALUMINUM. it is POWDER COATED...... i have no problems with paint on it.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
If it is actually powder coating, I remember someone saying they pass a flame over the surface, to burn out the oil in the powder (even if that statement does not make sense), then a wipe with I can't remember what.
I've striped bike frames that were powder-coated - but only by wet-sanding with 1000 grit WD paper, striping, and then putting a good clear varnish over it all afterwards a few days later - looked beautiful.
Dale $80 here is cheap! The better quality panels are $130 for an 8 x 4 in alupanel or dibond with the 0.3 mm aluminium skin !
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I remember buying a lot of baked aluminum when I lived in Ohio. The company I bought them from was where I could walk in and mingle with the owners. The products were excellent and I never had any problems with them at all.
Of course I was dumber than dumb a few times that I forgot to peel but not too far into the job! The quality of their painted panels was always 110%.
The name of the company was Lambert in Columbus, OH and I sure do miss them!
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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Back in the days, I used to buy, sheets and rolls of baked aluminum, gauge .040 and thinner, from NE Sign Supply ( http://www.nesignsupply.com ) and they were always very reliable.......I used to buy the rolls of thinner gauge for long, one piece, sign faces ( no seams )......In different colors and ready for lettering, with a quill or air brush.
I know you are in Mendenhall, MS and they are in Woburn, Mass.....a little far from you. But, who knows, they, still, might be able to help.
posted
Sorry Dale but $80 for a composite panel (plastic core between 2 sheets of aluminum) is a cheap panel. The going rate for Alumalite or DiBond (the 2 premium panel makers) is $125 & up for colors. I'm curious as to what brand of panel you purchased. It will be interesting as to what they're painted with. Some paint manufacturers are putting silicone in their paint for self cleaning properties, which sucks for both paint or vinyl application.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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