posted September 19, 2013 10:48 AM
It is my observation over the years that the majority of people in the sign business have pretty big egos. They think the are just about the best there is every time they put a sign out on a public road.
I guess you have to have a pretty strong opinion of yourself to put what you do out there for all the world 2C. I know I am that way. If I do something I don't like, because of the customers demands, I have been known to take & detour and drive 10 miles out of my way to avoid looking at it. And if I do something I like, I want to take everyone on a short tour 2 see it.
Through the letterheads + walldogs though, I have been humbled. There is so much talent around that you just about have to travel to other places and see what the others are doing in person.
The point of this post? Just wondering if anyone thinks egos sometimes get in the way of creativity? I know personally I have done better with a more humble attitude.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted September 19, 2013 11:24 AM
Wow, Jeff !......
Quoting your words:
"It is my observation over the years that the MAJORITY OF PEOPLE (?) in the sign business have pretty big egos. They think the are just about the best there is every time they put a sign out on a public road."
That is quite a statement, you are making there.........I never noticed it.
posted September 19, 2013 11:30 AM
With me, sometimes the ego gets riled up. "That looks stupid" I ain't doing that" Don't they know who they are deaing with!" But then the calmer side speaks out and says, "Just do the job, yes you can advise, but it's their project. Charge a bit more to make you feel better." What good is a big ego with empty wallet? And, once in a while ego wins the battle, makes me very happy. Those are the jobs you take pictures of and post them all over the place,,,"See what I did!" Overall it can be like a tight rope walk.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted September 19, 2013 06:02 PM
They are just signs! Not anything really intellectually important. Now a real painting? "You want how much for that?".
It is all a matter of taste, plus years of experience to make a good sign. The skill and knowledge to make it last outside, plus the drive to actually sell some image to a client is really tough. Once the age of hand-painting really does completely die with vinyl, we will all miss the few who could bang out 2" helvetica and make it last.
Egos? We ain't got no stinkin' egos!
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted September 19, 2013 10:50 PM
I think they used to say at Letterhead meets you "check your ego at the door". If I didn't do that, I soon found it chunked on the floor. I saw and learned so many incredible things from some of the most helpful people I'd ever met.
While we all want to take pride in our work, egotism is counter productive both personally and professionally. Proverbs 16:18 says "Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before stumbling." People whose egos get in the way don't listen or learn--they already know whatever they're dealing with better than anyone else. A humble person will listen, can be taught, and will make every effort to improve. They will also get along with others (including their customers) much better.
I love Jeff's observation: "I know personally I have done better with a more humble attitude."
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted September 20, 2013 03:55 AM
Dickens did a great portrait of a humble man in the person of Tom Pinch, in "Martin Chuzzlewit".
-------------------- dennis kiernan independent artist san francisco, calif, usa Posts: 907 | From: san francisco, ca usa | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted September 20, 2013 08:55 AM
Harding is correct. During those early Letterhead days I observed some of the most humble attitudes that I've ever seen. My heroes were also the men and women who would stand for hours and explain a process or how they did something different...but always with the idea of helping others, never with the attitude of blowing their own horn.
There is a confidence that comes with accomplishment, but it is not ego.
Along the way I've also heard those who said they know it all and the Letterheads couldn't teach them anything. Many of them are no longer in business or produce less than satisfactory work.
None of us know everything and what we do know we received from someone else. My heroes of the past are still my heroes of today, but none of them would admit that they are superior in any way. They still bend down to help others.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted September 20, 2013 01:17 PM
Oh ya mean having an ego or "I'm the best" additude when carousing with other sign people. Around others in the trade, no ego here, mostly admiration towards other tradesmen.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted September 20, 2013 02:54 PM
Ego is pride without deed. The psychiatrist Carl Jung suggests ego is a necessary part of 'self' - but the size of it inside your 'self' is where people get off track.
What distinguishes Jungian psychology is the idea that there are two centers of the personality.
Wiki: The ego is the center of consciousness, whereas the Self is the center of the total personality, which includes consciousness, the unconscious, and the ego. The Self is both the whole and the center. While the ego is a self-contained little center of the circle contained within the whole, the Self can be understood as the greater circle.
You just control the size of your ego . . .
Some do have trouble with that, for sure!! But when that Armageddon-sized asteroid fires in from the cosmos and burns up all your creations, who gives a crap? Be satisfied with your best efforts . . . THAT is an ego in control. Call it humble - call it being grounded . . .
But it is an ego in check.
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted September 20, 2013 06:11 PM
I have done signs that I thought were the best around. Took pictures, used them for portfolios, sales, etc. Then 10 years later, I would look at the same sign and say to myself, "what was I thinking" I could see all kinds of changes that could have and should have been made, but at the time I did the work,I was kinda full of myself and thought all was just as good as can be.
We all have to have the confidence to do what we see in our minds , but I think we also also have the humility to realize that our perception of our work will always be changing, as time goes by.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted September 20, 2013 07:57 PM
"Then 10 years later, I would look at the same sign and say to myself, "what was I thinking" I could see all kinds of changes that could have and should have been made, . . . "
Same here. It just means you're getting better all the time.
On the other hand, I dig out old stuff I did 40 and 50 years ago and often find qualities that I've lost over the years while I was getting better in other ways. Usually the lost quality was something I did just because I was young and spirited and didnt know any better.
-------------------- dennis kiernan independent artist san francisco, calif, usa Posts: 907 | From: san francisco, ca usa | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted September 20, 2013 11:37 PM
Although Rusty...a very meek but quite remarkable signmaker in his own right...one who has many deep and thoughtful insights into the more esoteric aspects of fine signmaking...not to mention his enlightened ruminations on such things as life, death, and purpose...inspite of all the wisdom and knowledge he could impart to his fellow signmakers on this topic...he is just to darn humble to say anything.
posted September 21, 2013 03:32 PM
Rusty has an ego as we all do, but i think if he taught some newbies a few of the things he knows would be beneficial for all involved. Kids don;t need teacher with a attitude like I kmow it all,,,but rather like a hands on guide who will push gently until they are able to be able see what you are showing them. You come in with an ego all puffed up you'll scare em away cause they'll feel like they sould never be thst good
pobably said it wrong but I tried.............
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted September 21, 2013 03:59 PM
Hey, just don't me around me when I be a singing James Brown SuperBad! My ego gets sky high on that one. Some of the lyrics,,,
I love, I love to do my thing, ha.. and I, and I don't need, no one else Sometimes I feels so nice, good god I jump back, I wanna kiss myself
I've got soul, huh, and I'm super Hey I said I'm super bad
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted September 22, 2013 01:48 PM
You are Alicia...
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted September 22, 2013 09:38 PM
In light Rusty's amazing body of work as a "signmaker extraordinaire"...the ordinary signmaker would find it exceedingly difficult to not flaunt their success in front of others...but Rusty is no ordinary person...and as we all know...he is no ordinary signmaker...even though he walks among the "sign gods"...he will always...with profound humility and compassion...empathize with those signmakers of lesser talent...and out of respect for them and their feelings...he will continue to remain silent on this topic.
posted September 23, 2013 01:13 AM
There are some things I know, and I have quite a bit of confidence in the execution of some of those things... but I have come to the conclusion that most things in life are like golf... the more you learn about golf, the more you begin to realize you didn't know as much as you thought... the more you learn and play, the more you raise your standards and expectations... I am my own worst critic, and I am always wanting to be better today than I was yesterday... I think this is what drives me... and maybe also what comes across as an "ego" to some.
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1735 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted September 23, 2013 01:27 AM
sometimes I guess my "ego" has got me in some situations- I was hired to paint a large mural in a private home- they had the exact thing that they wanted recreated, but gave me some artistic freedom... I'm not sure if it was the paint fumes working, but I painted a really cool snow capped mountain scene as the background image, but to this day, I cannot remember "HOW" I did it- I vaguely remember a couple of painting techniques, but I think about 90% of it was just pulled out of my butt- but I don't think I could try to recreate it. I had convinced them that I could paint "anything", and although the mountain scene was beautiful, a few weeks later I painted the images that they wanted... several deer (large, life-size deer) and my "ego" kinda let everyone down- they looked pretty close to their illustrations, but the illustrations weren't very good- well they didn't go very well with the background at all, but i eventually made it acceptable...I should have told my "ego" to shut up and leave the mural alone after the background...
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1735 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted September 23, 2013 09:13 AM
David Harding's observation is so true in my experience...
"People whose egos get in the way don't listen or learn--they already know whatever they're dealing with better than anyone else. A humble person will listen, can be taught, and will make every effort to improve."
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted September 23, 2013 10:24 AM
Though Rusty has always been good at being humble...better than most...once he was particularly humbled when asked to be best man at a guy's wedding who he didn't even know.
posted September 23, 2013 01:03 PM
Rusty has only been having some fun with this topic and has found the comments very interesting and thoughful...Rusty thanks Jeff for the posting...it has made some people look inward and think...actually Rusty finds nothing more despicable than a person with a conceited, superior, haughty attitude...much like the person he has protrayed in the above postings...Rusty also does not like people who talk in the 3rd person...Rusty will sign off for now and get back to his impassioned hobby (it's not work) of signmaking...and Rusty thanks Letterville for letting him have a little fun.
posted October 03, 2013 09:01 AM
I wonder if you would find an ego bearing sign painter at a Second letterheads meeting........ I miss learning.... and sharing what little I have to share.
-------------------- Bill'n'Annie Davidson Heathcote, NSW, Aus. my Aussie wife, a Toohey's Old, my Holden Ute, Retired from the rat race! Posts: 309 | From: Heathcote, NSW, Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted October 03, 2013 12:07 PM
Bill ...You wont find one at any meet I ever went to/ Not at a get together with other painters. At the shop it's more or less required. Doesn"t "ego" kinda translate into pride in your work. I think Jay Allen had it right in a way...ya gotta keep it under control... not let it get to where it blocks your vision.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted October 09, 2013 11:15 PM
The self proclaimed world's best pinstriper... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoinKFaZcbY I think it takes a lot to make that statement...
posted October 10, 2013 07:41 AM
Don't think ego has anything to do with pride in ones work....... by the dictionary definition....
EGO, the “I” or self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing, and distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its thought.
PRIDE, pleasure or satisfaction taken in something done by or belonging to oneself or believed to reflect credit upon oneself:
Someone with an Ego doesn't necessarily have to Do anything that reflects Credit upon them.
-------------------- Bill'n'Annie Davidson Heathcote, NSW, Aus. my Aussie wife, a Toohey's Old, my Holden Ute, Retired from the rat race! Posts: 309 | From: Heathcote, NSW, Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted October 10, 2013 09:38 AM
Joey, we didn't go wrong.. Cuz we never go on tape making such claims.. If you've ever seen the "master of the fine line's" work one would have to wonder if it's ego or just so full of it that now the person truely thinks he's the worlds best.. Not to mention the banners that utilize brush script sticky letters.. Gawd help us
-------------------- Gonzalo Curiel Peewee Signs & designs Oroville Ca 95965
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