posted
I'm having trouble airbrushing with 1-shot in my Iwata airbrush. The paint tends to clog no matter how I thin it and comes out in too large of droplets. Should I buy a different airbrush, and if so what brand? Thank you from Ellen
use at the very least, proper spray enamel thinners, and at the best proper reducers for that stuff.
Personally, if I have to airbrush enamels, I'll use other brands that flow better, rather than 1-shot because it is so "toothpaste-thick" in comparison and really takes some 'breaking up' to get thin enough, which is not good.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Okay.... then my Iwata HP-CS airbrush is not the culprit? I live in a rural area and have to mail-order most of my supplies, which is frustrating. I'll call 1-shot and see what to do. Thank you all very much for your advice.
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It depends...too fine a tip is going to make it hard too. Enamels are a different bird of prey from lacquers & basecoats/urethanes, which are much finer and work much better in an airbrush.
I won't use the finest tip airbrush we have with enasmels-the brush is just too good to be 'wrecked' by putting them through the system.
I find the Badger 155 (Eclipse?) with the 2-stage tip is pretty good for using with enamels if I need to. The tip has 2 different angles on it, to allow for different types of fluid flow at different pulls-back.
(But then I don't have a HP-CS... and I'm not an expert either )
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
there are many different tools, for many different applications- I was a t-shirt airbrusher for many years, and I used Paasche VL s as my main tools- I would change the head assembly to spray enamels for signs and such, I also had a couple of Azteks that I used for illustration, etc. I had a couple of Binks Wren single action, external mix guns that did a great job for specific tasks...
I don't know anything about the gun you are using- it may work fine for what you are trying to do, or it may be better suited for different applications. It is difficult to find a multipurpose gun that can do everything well- I loved the Paasches because they were workhorses for t-shirts and signs, but I had to really work hard to get them to work well for illustration...
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1735 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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Stewey, I appreciate your input. Iwata is the only brand I have ever personally used. I've heard that Paasche is the standard "best" but it's just hearsay. My Iwatas don't have variable flow tips and I wondered if that was the problem.
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lot of "car art" people use HOK(HOUSE OF COLOR)paint for airbrush. this is a urethane based paint that needs special reducers and slower dryers in them. iwata are used most in this area. paasche VL's make 3 different size tips and needles. this is for different types of paint, or how fine or large of an area you wish to paint with each pass.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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(Michael, I think our posts passed each other in cyberspace.) Thank you, everyone! I am a t-shirt artist also, but I'm a sign painter first in my heart. I've always used 1-shot for everything (except the shirts). Most of the time it's just paintbrushes (my fav) but then I have to use the airbrush on the signs now and then for added effects. Since computers have taken over the world, I don't get many orders for simple signs; people want fancy stuff (photo gallery over on facebook if you want to look). I don't call it illustration so it's not "that" fine.
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I have a few Badger 150 airbrushes and an Iwata HP-CS and a couple of other of off brands. Recently I was trying to work with both 1 Shot and Ronan black enamels with a few of these. Both brands of enamels are so thick that you have to add a ton of thinner, which can create some sad results in a hurry. I ended up using lacquer because I couldn't get any of the enamels to work. The enamels just seem to either not spray well or spit and sputter or produce freak drops because of too much reducer.
I have some Auto Air Colors I am going to try out....as soon as I get the chance. I am about ready to toss out all my enamels and switch over to urethanes or water based? Ronan Black enamel will not stick to anything, and lettering enamels in general, should not be the consistency of Honey!
posted
Dale, I thin my 1-shot with paint thinner until it's thinner than water and I've had no problems on things that are not too small. I have some lacquer thinner on hand (for other uses). Do you think that would be okay to mix with this paint? I might try it until I can call 1-shot for their advice. Except it's my day off and I'm not exactly in work mode, haha.
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I don't think I would use lacquer thinner with enamel....it works great for cleaning up with, but not reducing. I've used acrylic enamel reducer before. El-cheapo deluxe paint thinner never works good for me, except for cleaning hair brushes. I've also used some automotive reducers in 1-shot before
posted
i have reduced 1 SHOT with lacquer thinner. can be done...AS LONG AS YOU DONT SHOCK THE ENAMEL PAINT!!!!! by this mean, introducing the LT very slowly, and then slow stir it into the enamel. in florida when its cold(50 or lower)it makes the enamel flow better. heres an option for you with air brushes. pre reduced lacquer paint in a can!!!!!!! http://www.duplicolor.com/products/psFinishSystem/
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
We can buy 'spraying enamel' here, which is a consistency that is readily sprayable - it used to be good stuff, (the brand which was our favourite) till the company was taken over, and that one was bought out, and they then siply diuted the stuff, thickened it, and resold it for more.
What used to cover well in one coat, now is no good till it's had more than 2 coast - BUT it sprays well!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
We can buy 'spraying enamel' here, which is a consistency that is readily sprayable - it used to be good stuff, (the brand which was our favourite) till the company was taken over, and that one was bought out, and they then siply diuted the stuff, thickened it, and resold it for more.
What used to cover well in one coat, now is no good till it's had more than 2 coats - BUT it sprays well!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
The only time I used lacquer thinner with one shot was a drop or two in the dixie cup when lettering on a cold surface to keep it from running and kick start the drying.
-------------------- Bill'n'Annie Davidson Heathcote, NSW, Aus. my Aussie wife, a Toohey's Old, my Holden Ute, Retired from the rat race! Posts: 309 | From: Heathcote, NSW, Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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Okay, I'm going to make a list now of all the suggestions. Thank you everyone!! Really appreciate your input. Oh, to answer that last question, David, the pressure is low and stuck there. But since I generally am painting on baked-on aluminum, it's fine. Don't want any spidering.
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Dupont 3812s is an enamel reducer and can be bought at an auto body supply house. It's about 30 something a gallon, I don't know what a quart would run you.
Be warned, 3812 will dry WAY faster than the 1-S reducers. It also bites into the base much better.
-------------------- David Thompson Pro-Line Graphics Martinsville, NJ
I'm not this dumb, it's just the paint fumes talkin' Posts: 396 | From: Martinsville, NJ | Registered: Oct 2001
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Yeah, I favor the acrylic enamel thinner too, but I have used lacquer thinner a few times.
The thing to remember with lacquer thinner, is that the finished job will look better and last longer if cleared with an acrylic clearcoat.
Years ago, many crafty car painters used lacquer thinner with enamel to paint cars. It produced a glowing job, with little chance of the paint running. But.....six months later, the shine would die back, and it would look like primer. If you clearcoat, that can be prevented from happening.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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Ohhh!!! Enamel reducer. I remember Troy (my ex) using it sometimes. Rats, there is none on my shelf. Going back to my original problem (too large of droplets in airbrushing with 1-shot on an aluminum sign), perhaps this is the answer! I'm sure I can acquire some locally right away. Thank you, David Thompson!!
Dale, I use lacquer thinner to remove sticker goo. It also removes my fingernail polish, haha. As far as clearcoating, are you talking about automotive clear? I haven't seen a real need to clear over my signs. For an experiment, I cleared a mailbox that I painted for my own use with spray can clear to see how it would last. After about 2 years, the clear was peeling. Last I saw that mailbox (last winter before I moved due to divorce) the paint had faded to a nice mellow antique look.
OH! but while we are on the subject, once in a while I get to decorate a motorcycle. I don't paint the background color, only decorate. I tell the customers that after I'm done, they will have to take it back to the body shop to be cleared. It's a good system for my crowded little 1-woman shop.
posted
Ellen, I'm referring more specifically to Sherwin-Williams Sher-klear. Or Ronan Aqua Kote. Today's sign paints are junk! These clearcoats contain UV inhibitors, and make them hold up longer.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
You don't want to use an Acrylic Enamel Reducer, at least not from DuPont. In my younger years I used the acrylic and it made the paint dry flat.
Also, you can get slower drying versions of enamel reducer from DuPont. I tend to work pretty fast and the waiting time for the slower stuff to tack for outlining was a problem for me.
I don't know the number for the slower stuff offhand, but if you go to a supply house and ask for a slower version of 3812 they should be able to help you out.
As for the droplets, it sounds to me as if you either need to reduce the paint more or up your pressure. The only other thing I can thing is to check the needle, nozzle and aircap for damage. A deep enough scratch or nick can cause the paint to "bounce" of the side of the aircap causing spits and droplets.
-------------------- David Thompson Pro-Line Graphics Martinsville, NJ
I'm not this dumb, it's just the paint fumes talkin' Posts: 396 | From: Martinsville, NJ | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
I think I remember now why I'm not a fan of enamel reducer. It takes too long to dry, and turpentine is the worst for that reason. Everyone wants their stuff right now. I have examined my airbrush and it's in good shape. I can't up the pressure because then the paint will spider on the metal sign. I want the paint to stay shiny. I have no spray booth for coating bigger stuff and besides that's extra time and money the customer doesn't want to spend. It's tough competing against the other sign companies when all I do is paint the old-fashioned way. The 1-shot lasts long enough for the purpose of the signs. I've been doing this for 9 years now and I keep an eye on the ones locally to see how they wear. After about 5 years the outdoors signs fade a little but no one seems to care. A lot of my signs are small indoor ones anyway. I just want a smoother finer spray pattern on the little stuff and otherwise I'm doing A-OK. So thanks again everyone. I will be trying the enamel reducer in the airbrush as soon as I get out tomorrow and track some down. I'll let you know if it solves my problem. I appreciate all your advice and experience very much.
posted
Ok! here is my update. First I went to Sherwin-Williams because it's the closest. They had Penatrol and insisted that it's enamel reducer. I wasn't convinced but bought some anyway, sort of small can for $18.95. Then I had to go to Walmart for other stuff and of course they had nothing. Then I stopped by Crow-Burlingame because they have the fineline tape and yes, they have the Dupont 3812S ENAMEL REDUCER. Only in a giant can for $42.95 aack. So I bought it thinking I guess this might last the rest of my life, it's what I was looking for hopefully. Anyway, this morning I finally got a chance to get back to that sign I've been putting off because of this problem. I used the latter product to thin the 1-shot and it was LIKE A DREAM COME TRUE to airbrush!! I also had invested in a couple of new face masks, disposable but with a vent button, from Home Depot. THIS GIRL IS HAPPY TONIGHT!!!! Thank you all SOOOOOO VERY MUCH!!!!!!!!
posted
i have had "spidering" happen when STATIC ELECTRICITY was present. are you working on a carpeted surface? very dry air? clothing that will make static electricity?
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The only time I have spidering is when a) the pressure is too high for the hardness of the surface, or b) static electricity when painting on plastic. I prevent this by wiping a dab of Static Guard on it before drawing.
My floor is wood, and the air is humid here in Arkansas. That's all I know on that subject. Oh, make sure one foot is on the floor when painting on fiberglass.
posted
The only time I have spidering is when a) the pressure is too high for the hardness of the surface, or b) static electricity when painting on plastic. I prevent this by wiping a dab of Static Guard on it before drawing.
My floor is wood, and the air is humid here in Arkansas. That's all I know on that subject. Oh, make sure one foot is on the floor when painting on fiberglass.
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and I'm not an expert either )
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