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How would you compare a Graphtec to a Summa ? Cutters only, no printing. I need something that cuts rubber and makes pounce patterns as well as cutting sticky back stuff.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick I don't know much about the summa plotters but the newer grahtecs are looking pretty good,...the shop here I do tech work for has had one for the past year or so and they keep it running several hours a day with no complaints in over a year,..the blades are more expensive than the roland blades I use but they last alot longer,....they cut their rubber mask onna gerber so I can't help ya there,...the graphtecs do come with a free plugin to cut from corel or illustrator,...I don't know about patterns other than pen plots that have to be pounced after the plot (which they do quite well)
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have a new summa 52" - just a few yrs old...and it SUCKS cutting sandblast masks...and really not that great at vinyl...AND...the customer service is not that great either. I buy the best but the value of this cutter and increase in cost is totally unjustified for the end product.
I have to nurse this thing worse than the cheap vinyl express I have.
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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We love our Graphtec. It's a real workhorse. I don't know about cutting Sandblast mask, but it does a great job pouncing. Pouncing with a Graphtec Plotter Edited to add... this video was shot in Feb., not June.
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I've been using Graphtec's for many years since retiring the old Goober 4b. The company doesn't seem to be who I started with. All different folks, and in a few years they stop carrying parts for their older machines. Five years is considered older. I'm needing a new cutter and thinking of switching over.
Robert, thanks for your warning. I don't live near a dealer or know anyone that has one where I can see it and touch it and listen to it, so I'm relying on the testimony of those I trust.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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A fellow letterhead knows of my total frustration and one that he too has experienced...and his suggestion...and one that has worked well for him...if you want to cut mask on an ongoing basis, find an old sprocket fed gerber...(my summa is friction fed)
Here is my proof...A very large project we did 2 years ago...and this cart is only half of the mask we went thru on the 30" Hartco.
They said to increase tracking accuracy, I would have to remove the rubber (Hartco runs all of the way to the edge and not consistently either) so the rollers are actually on the backing paper...
On 100 rolls?????...give me a break...We had not had to babysit a process like this in some time.
hope that helps
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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all i can tell you about is ROLANDS. have never owned anything else. started with a PNC-1000, 20" 15 ips cutter. bought 2 PNC-1100 24" and ran them for a couple years. never a problem with any of them. sold them and as far as i know they are still running today. got a deal on a ROLAND CX-300, 30" AND I LUV IT!!!! cut a 10yd roll of of reflective this week with an old blade i used for vinyl. got it to cut perfect a 30 ips and 210 down force....flawless weeding)))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have a 24" Summa that has worked flawlessly for 7 years, only using 2 blades. It's friction fed, so I use the Hartco mask and tend to babysit as well but we don't blast nearly as much as the old days so it's not a problem. It cuts vinyl and FabTac awning stencil without a problem, but I agree with Robert: you can't beat a sprocket fed Gerber for cutting blast mask......
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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I've never had an enjoyable blasting time with the Hartoco product. I use the Anchor 155 which I think is a good bit thicker and more elastic. I'm told that the Summa will lower the blade to measure the thickness of the material and adjust to compensate for thickness differences. Kinda like if you put over sized tires on your truck it would alter the calibration to your odometer. With the Graphtec it's a somewhat tedious guessing game to get something cut from vinyl and rubber that align rightly.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Our Graphtec allows us to set "Conditions" Let's say you plot 5 different materials. Condition 1 - 2mil Condition 2 - Reflective Condition 3 - Pouncing Condition 4 - Sandblastmask - Hartco Condition 5 - Sandblastmask - Anchor You set each conditions to the speed, force, etc. you need for each material. Then pick a condition for the material you are using at the time. There shouldn't be any need for guesswork once you've set it up. The only two things that would require adjustment are, you put in a new blade, or the material is inconsistent in thickness.
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hiya Rick, I had a Summa D60 for some time now and I am quite pleased with it. However, I would not recommend it for cutting sandblast mask - even though it can do a pretty good job. Maybe it's because I'm "older" school or maybe it's because I, sometimes, have issues cutting regular vinyl (admittedly, operator error). But, I just can not leave the plotter alone when it's cutting anything thick. As Robert implied, use the best tool for the job and, IMHO, a good sprocket fed plotter will out-perform any friction based plotter any day of the week - even though many newer friction plotters have sensors to keep them on track. I think the only exception to the rule might be a flat-bed plotter. However, I never used one or seen one in operation. And, I probably never will because the prices I've seen on them are a bit salty.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I used our Graphtec on a large sandblast job we did a few years ago. We used about ten rolls of 30" Hartco as it came on the roll and the plotter required NO babysitting whatsoever. Even my Gerber plotter required TLC because the stiffness of Anchor mask would sometimes force the bail off the plotter and make the mask jump track.
Personally, I've never been impressed with Hartco mask compared to Anchor Continental. On that job, it worked well. Recently, I used the rest of one of the rolls on a sandblasted granite sign and the mask all lifted and trashed the stone. I spent a day with diamond pads polishing the faces back to usability and then scrounged up some even older Anchor Continental mask in the shop. The Anchor worked perfectly.
I learned about long term viability of Hartco compared to Anchor on that job. Every time I get tempted by the price point of Hartco, I get reminded that Anchor Continental is a better value for me.
I can set 8 conditions with my plotter. I have one for high performance vinyl, one for reflective and paint mask, and others for sandblast mask.
When we took delivery of the Graphtec plotter, we were in the midst of the large job referred to above. We'd been struggling with our 25 year old Gerber and a Roland plotter. Everything we cut required a person at each end to make sure nothing got trashed. When the inevitable glitch occurred, I'd have to stop the job, find a way to register it back in the plotter and then set up in Flexi to cut what was still necessary, an agonizing process.
The first piece of masking cut on the Graphtec was twice the width of what we'd been cutting on the other plotters. We stood at each end ready to jump in to assist if necessary but it cut a large, very complicated mask perfectly in only a couple minutes without any help at all. My daughter turned to me and asked, "Grandpa. Why did you wait so long?" I kept thinking of all the hours wasted to date trying to get the job done with the other plotters.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I just found out that my old version of Flexi doesn't have the drivers to run the new cutters. I don't do printing so I have no need for a current version. It sound like I'll need to convert a Flexi file to eps and send it to some bridge program to cut. Sure sounds like a pain to me.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick the new graphtecs come with a plugin(button installed in a program to run an extra command) to cut straight from corel or illustrator and if I am not mistaken you can save as and or export to either of those formats in flexi.I have a buddy who just cuts and pastes from one to the other
[ June 08, 2013, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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