When centering a line of copy with a drop shadow, on a panel....Do you center the lettering and let the shadow fall where ever it would naturally if it were truly dimensional or center the copy, shade and all?
I am guessing that a harsh shadow offset and subtlety of the shadow itself must be weighed in the decision.
What say Y'all?
-------------------- Bob Sauls Sauls Signs & Designs Tallahassee, Fl
"Today I'll meet nice people and draw for them!" Posts: 765 | From: Tallahassee, Fl | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have to weigh what the purpose of the layout is. If it is a "faux" job and the shadow is supposed to be real, then the lettering only. If it is a graphic part of a logo or in a strong contrast with the bkg, then I center the whole thing.
-------------------- Gerald Barlow Artworx Turlock, CA
95380 artworx@bigvalley.net Posts: 198 | From: Turlock, CA 95380, USA | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
If it looks good ........ do it! Don't leave it up to a computer!
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I like the "looks good "response this brings up another subject.... the shadow should compliment the letters,not overpower them how many times have you seen red letters on white with a fat black outline/shadow combo? or hows about blue on white with fat black shadows......theres more....lots more
[ January 09, 2013, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Michael Boone ]
posted
Usually I look at the direction of the sun in relation to where the sign would hang and put the drop shadow accordingly.
Might as well be correct in real-time.
However...sometimes the shadow would really distort the lettering rendering the whole thing unreadable. There a times when it works and times that it does not.
Yes...I too see that combination around here. Usually with the newbees.
Jackson
-------------------- Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun" Posts: 1000 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I generally think looking at the value or gamma contrast between the letters and the backgroud and go half way between. Black letters on a white background equals a 50% gray.
When changing colors, it is always a decision made on the flavor of the job. Something sedate should be sedate color changes and something zippy, you can go to the compliment.
Now the age old question, do you generally drop shade to the left or right? Less work for the left mostly, but I like the look of dropping to the right.
And another old pearl of wisdom someone gave me years ago for thick and thin letters: "From ten to four, the stroke should be more."
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I always thought drop shadows looked "more correct" to me when on the right.
I also believed that the shadow should be a "washed out" version of the background colour. In the case of a white background, of course, that would be a very light grey.
But what do I know? I am just an old vinyl jockey!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I am with you Si, but suspect that most prefer what they were taught or found easier. There should be a law against black shadows on a white background with red letters. It just might be that the guy is color blind. Bill
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
then there is the perspective shadow goes to the right on the left side, and goes to left on the right side. white background red letters and a black shadow))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Pribish... \that is the exact horror i just wrote about That is a top notch amateur combination of color you can almost paint a sign why not outline it in blue?
posted
QUES or CUES? I love that circus font. So rarely see it anymore...and the perspective drop shadow...abracadabra!
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
way to go preston.....i was wondering when someone WITH INTELLIGENCE(not boone or si)was gona see the spelling error.)))))))) i also spelled LEGENDS as L -E-D-G-E-N-D-S THE 1ST TIME I PAINTED IT, hence the white background))))) sorry boonski, but in this application the red letters and black shadow WORKS...........this window is on a road 45 MPH..........and most are doing more........and it can be read ..........the shadow is created with a perspective vanishing point center and bout 2 foot below the letters.....
[ January 12, 2013, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
You might be able to read it, but it would be so much more legible with a light grey shadow. A blended shade would be awesome on there. That font makes me think of cotton candy & little dogs riding tricycles.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
the window got broke 3-4 years ago......and they just never put any new lettering on it. actually did 2 windows, and they both got broke in the last 12 years..... that font was on a really cheap cd i bought many years ago. but is as close as i could get to the RINGLING BROS CIRCUS FONT. its called FZ UNIQUE 42 or FZ UNIQUE 42 EX. here ya go. http://www.fontpalace.com/font-details/FZ+UNIQUE+42/
[ January 12, 2013, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
In my world, the sun is on the left or east. And, my letter shades are on the right.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Personally, when I first saw the "LEGENDS" lettering, I took the black shade for making the letters look dimensional, rather than being a shadow. It probably wouldn't have won any international design awards but I didn't find it offensive.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think that, in theory at least, a shade is considered more a part of the background than a part of the letter. Or maybe it should be called middle ground, like in a landscape painting. So, low contrast to the background. If the shade fights the letter for attention, there can be a legibility problem. Having said that, I have also seen people break this rule successfully. So many factors—shade thickness, outline thickness, letterstyle and stroke thickness, letter spacing—can be manipulated. You can end up with a group of letters that still retain legibility in spite of a prominent shade, or you can have letters that are a mass of unreadable colors. Viewing distance is yet another factor to be considered.
Does the "LEGENDS" window lettering have a legibility problem? It does't seem to, and is probably readable from across the street. The letter shapes are not so distorted by the dark shade as to render the letters unrecognizable. The shades don't fill in the spaces between the letters, which could have been a problem. You could improve the legibility of the word, true, make it readable from a greater distance. But what would be the point? If it's readable from across the street, it's probably good enough. We could also improve legibility by substituting Helvetica, but would that be an improvment or would it be defeating the design intent?
.....
Do you factor in a shade width when centering copy? The general answer I think is no-ish. If the shade is low contrast to the background, it has little visual weight. So can it not usually be ignored? But as soon as I say this is a rule, someone will show me how they had to factor a shade in to keep the word from looking off-center. So circumstances may dictate. Like Jackson S. said with a lot less words, "There are times when it works and times that it does not." Or, as Tony V. said in even fewer words, "If it looks good...do it."
Don Kelly of Bartonville, Illinois, used to say, "If it looks right, it IS right." Once we know we can trust our eye, this usually works the best.
.....
Si, I can paint a right side shade quicker, but then...I use the wrong hand.
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here's an example of why red letters with black outline and drop shadow generally doesn't work. I took this a couple days ago. It was just as hard to read on the sunlit side.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
On the rare occasion I paint a shadow, I find it easier to paint it on the right. Being right handed, when I'm painting, my right hand doesn't cover the letter. If I painted it to the left, my hand would cover the letter while I'm painting. Maybe if I knew how to paint, it wouldn't be an issue.
BTW, if you think about it, a carved letter is a hole.....right? How can a hole cast a shadow????
Joe,
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
In the 45 years that I have been painting signs, I have never heard of any rule dictating where the shading should be painted...However, what I have learned, throughout the years, is that the shading goes on the opposite side of where the source of light comes from and that it is, definitely, part of the body of the positive space ( copy and graphics, if any is incorporated within the design ). Thus, when balancing the negative space around the positive space, the shading applied should always be considered as part of the positive space for proper balance...Regardless of the side on which the shade is painted........Some sign painters, in order to remind themselves where the light source was, while lettering a sign, would stick a small piece of tape on the exact place that they had chosen as the source of light. This way, they knew on which side of the letters they had to paint the shade of the letters and/or any graphic within their design.
On deciding on which side of the copy should the shading be painted, I have learned that, most of the times, it will depend on where the finished sign is going to be installed and where it is going to be read from......After you know, exactly, where the sign will be installed, ask yourself on which side would the shading look better and/or will it enhance the readability of the sign?....Always taking into consideration other possible shadows projected on your sign by other applications around it.
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic