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I have been cutting lots of HDU pieces on my ShopBot and recently some insulation foam sheets. I was told a long time ago that Jay Cook's primer works great on HDU so that's what I've been using for a few years. Now that I am using my CNC router, I have been cutting indoor signs, logos and shapes from insulation foam mainly for practice.
I want to paint the insulation foam pieces so I need to know what water-based primer will do the trick. Also is their something I can use to give the cheap foam a harder shell before painting?
Some of these projects will turn into Christmas presents if I get them done in time! Any suggestions would be appreciated. I did go out to the Sherwin Williams paint store and picked up a quart of their water-based primer to try. It isn't too expensive ($21.Gal) $10 for the quart. If it works I will go back and get a gallon. Anything else out there that you are using? Thanks for your help!
Sign-cerely, Steve
-------------------- Steve Luck Sign Magic Inc. 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 (618)466-9120 signmagic@sbcglobal.net Posts: 870 | From: 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Steve, I used Jay Cooke's primer for years but bought a can of BM Fresh Start just for fun & I was hooked. It sands out much nicer ( doesn't ball up in the sandpaper ) & sooner, doesn't puddle up in the corners as badly & if you're rolling it, it doesn't splatter up your arm as much. The new BM "Superior Primer" I don't like as much.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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I am guessing BM stands for Benjamin Moore and not what I first thought Fresh Start was referring to? Thanks Rodger, I'll check and see who carries it around here. Maybe Lowes or Home Depot?
Sign-cerely, Steve
-------------------- Steve Luck Sign Magic Inc. 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 (618)466-9120 signmagic@sbcglobal.net Posts: 870 | From: 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 | Registered: Dec 2004
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HDU does not need a primer for a top coat paint to adhere. Almost anything will stick to it. But, some of us use a primer mainly to smooth everything out, but several coats of paint would do the same thing.
I use Coastal Enterprise's FSC88-WB primer (water based) because it dries quickly and sands to a super smooth finish. It can be sprayed, brushed or rolled.
I'm not familiar with the lighter foam materials, so not much advice can be given. It seems that the extra steps of applying a hard finish could be avoided by simply using a higher density HDU.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Durham's Rock Hard Putty literally is rock hard....very brittle. Not that that is a problem in most cases, but in making picture frames, I have found bondo works with much better expansion and contraction. Hard to get smooth, but at least it is flexible. Amazingly, it is still fairly inexpensive at 20-25 a gallon can. If you rough sand it fairly soon after it sets up, it can be easy to work, but wait a day and it is really hard.
If someone could add something to the Durham's to give it less brittleness, then that might help as the water based Durham's does hand form a bit easier with a damp cloth to smooth it out before it sets up. Maybe some fiberglass strands?
I have to think going back to a surfacing primer as used in a body shop would be better. Not up on the specific products today, but surely someone makes a water based surfacing primer that sands without balling up the paper and could be brushed on? Any ideas?
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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Look up styrospray 1000 from www.industrialpolymers.com it is 2 part plastic that can create a gloss finish with brush application. They will sell a 2qt batch that can do I think 100 sqft for about $25.00. If you want to make it super smooth get the primer too. I have some but have not found the time to play with it. The samples I have look awesome. This is what all the prop guys use.
-------------------- Douglas Hancock Sign Pro of North Florida, Inc, P.O. Box 1315 Alachua, Fl 32616 352-359-7059 Posts: 17 | From: Alachua, Florida | Registered: Sep 2012
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That's great guys. Thanks for your suggestions. I do use HDU for project that will be outdoors or needs to be more rigid, but a 1" 4'x8' sheet of HDU is $206.00 and a 1" 4' x 8' sheet of insulation foam (pink or blue!) cost $15.87 at either Lowe's (blue) or Home Depot (pink).
I would only use insulation foam for interior projects anyway, but would like to give it some strength with a good primer or some sort of top coat along with the paint.
The Shopbot router cuts the insulation foam so smoothly and is really inexpensive to work with. My friend Doug haffner is making some "Amazing Creations" with it. He did suggest the Styrospray but also uses Sherwin Williams Concrete and Masonry primer. I still use Jay Cook's primer on lots of signs but wondered if it was ok for insulation foam. It works on everything else!
Another thing I was wondering about: What type of sprayer do you use and has anyone tried the cordless battery-powered sprayers? They are around $450. Just wondering if it's worth the money. Thanks.
Sign-cerely, Steve
-------------------- Steve Luck Sign Magic Inc. 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 (618)466-9120 signmagic@sbcglobal.net Posts: 870 | From: 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 | Registered: Dec 2004
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I sometimes spray FSC88WB onto HDU, thinned with water, using an HVLP gun with an oversized 2.2mm nozzle. Never tried spraying Jay Cookes but when I did use Jay Cookes, I had problems with it 'balling up' in the sandpaper. I wet-sand the FSC88. Haven't primed any styro, but I understand it takes acrylic latex well.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Steve, on the pink foam insulation for interior, I have use Elmer's glue mixed with latex paint. It might do what you want for this application and talk about low tech!
-------------------- Joy Kjer Art On Display Signs 4001 Randolph St Lincoln, NE
"My life has a superb cast, but I can't figure out the plot." Posts: 445 | From: 4001 Randolph St. Lincoln, NE | Registered: Jun 2002
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Steve, on the pink foam insulation for interior, I have use Elmer's glue mixed with latex paint. It might do what you want for this application and talk about low tech!
-------------------- Joy Kjer Art On Display Signs 4001 Randolph St Lincoln, NE
"My life has a superb cast, but I can't figure out the plot." Posts: 445 | From: 4001 Randolph St. Lincoln, NE | Registered: Jun 2002
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Steve, on the pink foam insulation for interior, I have use Elmer's glue mixed with latex paint. It might do what you want for this application and talk about low tech and easy to find!
-------------------- Joy Kjer Art On Display Signs 4001 Randolph St Lincoln, NE
"My life has a superb cast, but I can't figure out the plot." Posts: 445 | From: 4001 Randolph St. Lincoln, NE | Registered: Jun 2002
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Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6714 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Incidentally, I stated above that I was using Zinsser Cover Stain for primer on Styrofoam. It fills great, sands great, and takes paint like crazy.
Just in the last couple days, we also used it to block out some digitally printed RED copy on a VINYL banner. It stuck to the vinyl, blocked out the red, and the "patching" was invisible after we put the white acrylic topcoat on it. I was impressed!.
For anyone who might've used the old XIM white primer in past years, this stuff is almost identical to how that stuff smells, acts and works......but a good bit less expensive.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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I use this Zinsser Cover Stain on every thing I make with MDF. It seals tight first time every time. But you have to work fast because it does build up.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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