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WARNING! VINYL HACK ATTEMPTING TO LEARN TO MAKE REAL SIGNS IGNORANT QUESTIONS TO FOLLOW!
So, in preparation for my upcoming two week impending disaster where I attempt to teach myself stage-blasting, glue-chipping, glass carving, and gilding....all at the same time....I'm thinking about finishes for my masterpieces (provided, of course, that I don't smash them all with a hammer and throw all this stuff out.) I've got 12 pieces of 1/4" glass....I'm hopping for four finished pieces out of that.
I want to do the gold work on the inside of the glass. For one of the designs I want to do matte centers on the letters and something close to a mirrored, shiny, gold for the outlines. Do I use one-shot slow size for that or do I use the gelatin diamond sheets? Are both of those wrong?
After the gold is down I plan to back it with black one-shot, leaving a thin black outline. The lettering is set in a panel which is going to be black as well. The panel is about 5" x 20". I was thinking that instead of just painting it black I could either glue chip it and paint it black (would that even show up) or I could possibly use black smalts. If using smalts on the inside of the glass is possible how to I adhere it so that the glass shows instead of the glue/cream/size/paint?
[ December 13, 2012, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Patrick Whatley ]
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I'll let REAL experts answer your questions but I'll give a stab based on some of my own experience.
Painting the glue chipped area black will make it look like you just had black paint on the back--the texture will mostly disappear.
I did a border once by glue chipping, doing a single water gild, burnishing with cotton, which left many holidays and uncovered areas, and then backing with black paint. The result was a mottled border of black and textured Gold, which looked really cool but it was hard to duplicate the effect as nicely on succeeding pieces.
Trying to add smalts to the back will just leave the appearance of black paint on the glass. However, with spacers you could suspend your glass with glue chipping and clear areas over a background that has smalts applied. I have a piece I'm planning that way if I ever get around to it.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Well Patrick, I admire your attempt to learn it all at once! I've suggested to many beginners to go buy a dozen small picture frames with a piece of glass already in it (99 cent stores). Make a basic gold letter on 1 untill you ca do it. The next one, maybe a simple letter with a bright outline and a matt center, etc. These make great samples for the shop.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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Ditto on what David said. If you want a speckled look background, just try a little fudging with the paint, layers, hits and bangs with a sponge or stibbleing brush. Throw in a little 1-Shot Pearlescent. Do your letters/designs let it dry then do your background thing.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3816 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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"For one of the designs I want to do matte centers on the letters and something close to a mirrored, shiny, gold for the outlines. Do I use one-shot slow size for that or do I use the gelatin diamond sheets? Are both of those wrong?" Make the matte center with oil size og matte clear, let it fuly dry, do not gild. When dried, gild both the matte center and the mirror outlines with gelatine size, outlines will be mirror, matte center will be matte.
-------------------- Stein Saether GullSkilt AS Trondheim Posts: 1183 | From: Trondheim Norway | Registered: Nov 1998
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Sounds like you don't have the book Gold Leaf Techniques?
-------------------- Bill'n'Annie Davidson Heathcote, NSW, Aus. my Aussie wife, a Toohey's Old, my Holden Ute, Retired from the rat race! Posts: 309 | From: Heathcote, NSW, Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi Patrick, My best advice would be ,wait for the book ,read it all, then read it again then start your panels,simple ones at first You can not rush this sort of learning and trying to do it all at the start is not the way. theletterheads.com has a ton of info on this. I know many who visit here go there too
-------------------- Terry Colley The VintageSign Co 42 barrack hill Romiley Stockport Cheshire, England sk6 3az tel 0161 494 5089 terry@bullandbrush.fsnet.co.uk Posts: 210 | From: England | Registered: Dec 1999
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Hi Patrick, My best advice would be ,wait for the book ,read it all, then read it again then start your panels,simple ones at first You can not rush this sort of learning and trying to do it all at the start is not the way. theletterheads.com has a ton of info on this. I know many who visit here go there too
-------------------- Terry Colley The VintageSign Co 42 barrack hill Romiley Stockport Cheshire, England sk6 3az tel 0161 494 5089 terry@bullandbrush.fsnet.co.uk Posts: 210 | From: England | Registered: Dec 1999
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By your own admission you say you are a vinyl hack,...if you have not attained the proper hand lettering skills water gilding will not be an option easily accomplished(the bright mirror reverse gilding process). I personally would not use one shot to back up gold on glass,instead I would use a product made specifically for that process available from letterhead supply,..they are a vendor here Ron & Kristie should have some very good advice and more than likely will have all the tools and materials to do the job properly. They are also a fountain of knowledge on the type work you wish to do,....
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I admire your courage. Gilding glass with a matte center is not for the newb, but what the hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained, eh?
Just a couple of tips: 1) Clean, and I mean C-L-E-A-N glass is an absolute must. The book will help you recognize what this means. 2)Paint your outlines first and don't use 1-shot. Naz-dar screen printing ink is a better choice. 3)Don't use 1-shot for your matte centers. I am in the middle of a maddening experience doing the same technique and found out the hard way the 1-shot fast dry oil size won't stick to the glass. Brian Briskie (a.k.a.Brian the Brush) helped me out with this one. 4) Finally, remember: patience is your friend.
Good Luck!
-------------------- Brian Oliver Paxton Signs Fort Collins, CO paxton@peakpeak.com www.paxtonsignsofcolorado.com Posts: 237 | From: ft. collins, colorado,usa | Registered: Mar 2001
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Wait for the book? Who's got that kind of time? Fortune favors the brave. Not the case in glass work What's the rush, the glass will teach you to be patient. I don't know of any part of hand lettering or reversed glass work that can be rushed, the glas will chip when it is ready to chip if want use a hammer take up carpentry! All that said it is well worth the wait glass signs are the best of our craft
-------------------- Terry Colley The VintageSign Co 42 barrack hill Romiley Stockport Cheshire, England sk6 3az tel 0161 494 5089 terry@bullandbrush.fsnet.co.uk Posts: 210 | From: England | Registered: Dec 1999
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