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I've been trying to teach my Grandkids hand lettering. The poster paints available just don't compare to the real stuff.
Instead of doing it the eay way and calling Pete at Canadian Signcrafter Supply, or my old pal Bob Behounek, it just seemed more helpful to try this cool Letterhead site first.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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I think you're talking about the stuff we used in art class when I was about seven. It could have been RichArt. It was liquid gouache in a jar (commonly but mistakenly called tempera) and had a pleasant smell which I can still remember over 70 years later. Blick has a couple lines in its catalog -- Prang, for one.
-------------------- dennis kiernan independent artist san francisco, calif, usa Posts: 907 | From: san francisco, ca usa | Registered: Feb 2010
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I loved using sho card color. I loved the days when we did paper banners. Rich Art and Crown Tempera were a few of the brands. I think the sign supply in Portland or Seattle still sells the stuff.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick, you're so right. It had a different flow, but the fact that it was a showcard offered a certain amount of freedom in the layout and any "flair" you might want to toss in - great aroma, too.....
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Well, I still love One Shot Poster. Compared to about any water based tempera it is just so much easier to use. Ronin does not seem to hold up outside as well. Love the fast dry and 'pull' compared to any water based paint. It does shelf out fairly fast, but a slightly bent screw driver in the drill press after 15 minutes does seem to break it down into very usable product again. I found ten pint cans last weekend in an old box and tried this trick to see if I could save one which had settled out. Worked fine.
Another trick I have used is to add some penetrol to it for better brush ability, but it does not hold up as well on glass outside. Even tried some other oils and found Galkyd seems to be the best, but way too expensive for most uses. $40 for six ounces is a bit high. Have also tried and used Liquin...lower price and works similar.
I use white poster as a base for windshield lettering and at just the right consistency, it does hold up well enough to last three months, overcoated with either another poster color or fluoro.
I also have to make some large showroom window signs on banner or white butcher paper for some stores that cannot paint the outside windows. Poster is definitely the way to go on paper, but it does warp tyvek out. Great work when it too cold out there and I can do them here inside. The time, compared to direct painting outside is almost doubled, plus the installation with 3M Hi Perf clear tape.
I love poster enamel and would love to know what binder they use in it to make it set up so fast.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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Love Superfine japan colors for paper signs, mix with turps, goes a long way, dries fast, colors bright and still available on line.
Also have show card colors on hand.
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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Yes you can still get Rich Art. http://pacificcoastpaint.com/ I believe they still sell it. Its where I used to buy mine.
-------------------- Charles Borges de Oliveira Borges Lettering & Design Snohomish WA Posts: 352 | From: Snohomish WA | Registered: Mar 2003
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Steve, give the children red sable brushes to work with, they seem made for the Rich Art water colors. Bill
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Red sables ( Grumbacher ) + Rich Art ( tempera ) + Crescent cards = Pretty show cards.
RD
P.S. -- Poster paint is for paper signs ( usually weight 22 to 24 lbs.)......and, of course, for other surfaces too.....but works much better on paper, without causing paper to wrinkle ( as tempera does ).
posted
For those interested, poster colors are just pre-mixed Japan colors although usually a courser grind which is why I too prefer superfine Japans. Although the water based shocard colors were what I learned with, the card available now is not clay coated so the surface wrinkles if it gets too wet. My uncle who only did shocards, preferred the snap of red sables and superfine Japans for smooth brilliant colors.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Thanks for all the responces. I knew we still had lots of oldtimers lurking around this place. Mike Stevens and Bob Behounek used Rich Art and Sables.
Now that I got you all behaving again, I'm going to start sharing some of the hundreds of Bob Harper showcards we took photos of during a weekend at his place.
Good to see Kent. How about some Letterhead yarns from the old days?
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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Mike Stevens, taught me the use of red sables when I worked at Mel Cotton's sporting goods in San Jose. Still use em'...
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Love show cards, always looked forward to the articles in Signs of the Times years ago "From the bench of Bill Boley" still have some of them. I did many myself years ago, still have Rich Art and my sables.
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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What exactly are Japan colors? Basically varnish and pigment?
-------------------- dennis kiernan independent artist san francisco, calif, usa Posts: 907 | From: san francisco, ca usa | Registered: Feb 2010
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No varnish, unless you were to use it for backing up gold leaf on glass then you would add varnish.
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
I used to have some red sables for sho-card lettering. I lost them in the "great war of 1989", divorce. I forgot to grab them on my way out.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
my collection of red sables, oh, the just lay there in the box, honkin' #20, wore one out using in water based vinyl on banners back when...loved using Plaka(out of W. Germany) on tyvek, with the sables, used to get showcard colour from Sherwin Williams...RichArt , got it last at McLogans in San Diego, Pacific Coast, great store. that claycoated card(Peterboro) was great, you could fix booboos with a stencil knife, just scraping away the stain after you wiped it off first...
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Technically Japan color pigments are ground in Japan varnish instead of oil like oil colors and enamel pigments. That varnish is the carrier and resin which causes adhesion and rapid dry and is usually Florence or Venice Japan varnish. Usually little or no tail solvent is added in the can filling process as is done with enamels. Japans come in a paste-like consitency which allows remix and intermix to suit your application needs. This means mix any intermix colors first in paste from, then reduce. The best way to use them is to add more Japan varnish first to get the level of flow desired and sparingly add solvent as well. Use a solvent that will gain consistency rapidly like turps or high temp reducer. Do not use mineral spirits because it takes too much to reduce the consistency and it adds oil which will leave spots on card and paper not to mention glass. If you think you don't have Japan varnish, quick or fast gold size is a Japan varnish.
Note, I still like RichArt since that is what I first used.
Steve...I have so many stories, send me a topic or time period and I will try to share some as I have time...
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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I should add that another faster dry Japan varnish is quick rubbing varnish.
Also, for a faster dry, non-permanent version particularly good for paper signs and the like, one can just reduce the Japan color with solvent. When durability was not an issue, we used to do grocery store paper banners lettered with Japans reduced with lacquer thinner. They would dry in 5 minutes which was great if you made two or more alike. Just roll out new paper over the first sign and quick copy by seeing through the paper. Also great if the customer was on the way.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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It's cool to see so many old timers getting in on this. I haven't seen that Masters couple in years. Makes me wonder who else might be lurking on here.
You know what? Kent wrote the Book On Goldleaf. If he's still alive and posting, those Strong and Atkinson guys might still show up.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
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Loved the smell of japan and turps in the morning!
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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I found a mouse skeleton in my old sign kit. He must krooooooooked eating my red sables and Japan colors.
Its been awhile, but last year I did have to hand paint, the "chevrolet" raised letters on the back of an old restored truck. ( I had to buy a new brush, you know, cause of the mouse )
posted
Len, me too. I have been doing so many more traditional signs, dry enamel smell in the shop as I stoke up the wood stove in the morning, just like when I was a kid. While nestolgia takes over a bit, the practicality of using a brush when appropriate has its financial rewards as well.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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I still use One Shot poster paint for paper signs but I only stock black, red, blue and white. Colors like light green, orange, brown, etc. get used so infrequently that the can dries out. I haven't done a showcard in AGES, don't even think my supplier still stocks them and customers don't even know to ask for them anymore. I always did them in One Shot as well; I did buy the red sables and water paint once and messed around a bit but I was used to the oil-based paint and stuck with that.
posted
here was nothing better than the smells of walking into a real sign shop back in the fifties.
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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