posted
Due to small town politics we were just denied substantial funding for more maintenance for the murals painted by The Walldogs in 1997.
This is the link to the local newspapers website where they have a poll asking this:
The Belvidere City Council voted 6-3 Monday to remove mural maintenance expenses from the “City of Murals” project list. Do you agree with the vote?
Yes. The city has more pressing needs. 45%
No. If you’re going to market yourself as the “City of Murals” you need to invest in them. 54%
Clearly most all of us agree wtih 'no' so if you could, PLEASE cast a vote.
Here's the link http://www.rrstar.com/ and the POLL is on the right side of the page - just below the bottom of your screen - scroll down a tad and cast your vote!! THANKS!!
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
This is why I don't put much value in information derived from random polls, and if they're smart, neither should those local decision-makers. This request kind of destroys any real value that such a poll may have had, if it had been restricted to immediate residents who are the local taxpayers.
Yes, finances are always a consideration, but should those considerations be swayed by a poll that's now bound to be influenced by outsiders with a pro mural bias ?
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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With the struggling economy and tight city finances, the council has to set priorities. If you're this passionate about this, why not take the initiative to raise the funds yourself? That is what we're doing with the local animal shelter in our town. Just a thought.
Budgets are being slashed nearly everywhere. Unemployment is still high and homes are still going through foreclosure.
As important as maintaining the murals may be, there are just other concerns that are more pressing.
So, with council's permission, get a fundraiser going and take over the maintenance of the murals. It could actually be a blessing in disguise because, if you do it right, you might be able to eliminate ANY politics/council influence.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Right off the bat I'm with Jay. Then there's the budget thing. Usually it's real easy to slash something in the budget that seems not necessary. But if the murals are a part of the city's source of income, which has been shown countless times as increasing revenue through tourism, then this is something that should not be overlooked. Appearance of the city needs maintenance. What if there was no trash pickup? City wouldn't look so good, huh? I think there are ways to raise money, either publicly or privately for maintence. If not, then remove the murals and go on. I'll vote for maintenance.
-------------------- Tom & Kathy Durham House Springs, MO Posts: 654 | From: House Springs, MO | Registered: Apr 1999
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I'm with Jay too. If we, the artists, do not speak up and protect our art & the preservation of it, who will? There are a whole lot of people who straight up don't understand or appreciate the arts & what it does for us as a society. That's why you have so many schools cutting their art & music programs. Or little old ladies painting over 100 year old pieces of art completely ruining it for any future generations. We cannot roll over & let this kind of stuff happen. We, the artists, need to make people understand why protecting art is important.
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Tom, as usual, you see through the opinion . . . and get to the meat of the issue. You are spot on. This is no different than repairing sidewalks or potholes or sewers . . . THE CITY exploited the brand but never contributed much to it.
Without all the facts, opinions aren't terribly valid here. Never will be - not for me - not for anyone. This was NOT part of their normal budget process - this was part of being asked by the administration to submit ideas for the expiring funds . . .
The poll was NOT meant to shape opinion. It was an 'after-the-fact/vote' poll to gauge interest - not shape policy.
So in light of that, here's those facts:
The details, guys . . . This was an EXPIRING TIF district fund (they last 23 years and are slight increases in property taxes to be used for enhancements and improvements in the specified boundaries of the TIF district) that had about $200,000 in it that would have to go back to the taxing districts if unspent by next April 30th.
So, in essence, "free money" for the right projects - and enough to take care of the 3-story streetscape in ONE SHOT - PLUS have the remainder of the dollars be used for improvements in a facade program with that largest amount going to the property owners whose buildings the murals are on . . . So realize that one without the other is harmful to the city . . .
Belvidere painted its water towers, signs and websites with "City of Murals" - The Arts Council has outspent the city 5 to 1 on murals in the last 15 years. So while the city exploits the name - they haven't participated to the level that a few other groups have. The students have added 19 since 1996 . . . so we have IMPACT. People DO support it - but the loudest voices are always the squeaky wheels. That's what we have . . .
WE on the Arts Council did NOT select that 'city of murals' as the city's brand. THEY did. So if you advertise and promote your town as something, isn't it normal to support that in city administrations???
If we have successful Walldog towns then what does it say about Walldog towns that fail after we're there? It says that the failures happened from the town failing to get behind it . . .
Logic and common sense . . .
Excuse me . . . but I work very hard to allay that fro m happening - and to respect the murals WE . . . The Walldogs - GIFTED them to the city in 1997. I think fighting for that is more important - considering HOW the money was available.
This is also an example of small town politics and a political vacuum with the current Mayor done in April . . . It's all 'cut and kill' from this small band of Aldermen and it is killing the vision of the town's citizens and downtown property owners (who DO support us and the murals) - but these are Special Funds there for the betterment of the district they are used in.
NOT from the annual budget.
So there's the facts . . . and opinions can now be formed with ALL the facts known. I would've thought people would ask questions before forming opinions. That's what I try to do. But to each teir own.
(They chose to give a former city employee $55,000 for his parking lot resurfacing - even though the Public Works director said it didn't need improvements - and he just bought the property so he never paid a dime into the TIF fund. Games, people - not just ideology...)
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jay, you didn't like Glenn's idea? Seems getting politics completely out of it would be the best way to preserve the murals for the longest time. Otherwise, the murals will always suffer in times like these.
posted
Oops . . . forgot a fact, Don. Let me answer.
I am the chair of the Mural Project steering committee on the Boone County Arts Council (serves Belvidere - 25 years old - been on the board 17 years). We have contributed 5 times what the city has - as stated above. So we DO raise the funds ourselves . . . and have for 15 years. That seem right to you? Outspending the city 5 to 1 on them?
What Glenn's solution fails to take into account is that this is money already collected - the check's been written so it 'feels' like it doesn't cost anything . . .
For us to go out into the community to raise funds would then place the burden on the citizenns - when the city has benefitted from establishing 'city of murals' as a brand. So why does the public suffer - and have to foot the bill - just because the city hasn't exercised its obligations to help pay for promoting it as such . . .
If it is the citizens we represent with government, how is that helping them when this fund could help greatly and relieve them from writing another check?
And the kicker? They're going to let some of the dollars available expire - so each of the taxing districts gets a few hundred to a few thousand dollars back. Yet they WON'T support the mural brand?
It defies logic . . .
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I guess this was awhile back before the CSA took over Walldogs, too. So no help there.
Sounds like you're between a rock and a hard space. Other than stating your case to the locals, I don't know what options would be left, outside of court. Sounds like that's what it's come down to...lawyers.
[ August 24, 2012, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Don Coplen ]
posted
Glenn . . . an amount that the Arts Council could raise in funds with no trouble at all . . . $10-$15K per year would see one new mural and something refurbished. We learned long ago that once a community has THAT design, they wish to KEEP that design. So we repaint . . .
But it is the 3-story "Huge Wall" (playfully named after Bill Hueg, the designer of it) that would be able to be done in one shot with this large amount of money available. Aside from that, we can handle maintenance - but the city should contribute SOMETHING if it brands itself on letterhead, water towers, etc . . . and this was the best way where it doesn't place that large burden on the Arts Council.
None of us would let our customers get away with using something we did to their benefit, would we? We'd expect our clients to pay . . . right? Seems fair for us to ask . . . and to be wise enough to see that the streetscape (34' x 80') could become a non-issue for the next 15 years or more. Instead, it is fading badly now . . . even after we washed the 'chalk' off 3 years ago. (Which helped incredibly, by the way)
Don . . . CSA didn't 'take over' The Walldogs . . . It is just another place and way for sign friends to BS and trade ideas . . .
And it simply isn't something we wish to litigate. It's simply small town politics.
But it is also foolish - and forgetful of the amazing things the Arts Council has provided for the city for 25 years now. Murals aside, you don't spit in the eye of a not-for-profit - and their people did just that - IN council.
My attempt to add to the votes was merely a way to show support in the final tally. It was NOT to influence as it was - as I said above - it was an 'after the council vote' poll.
It was also 55-45 in our favor before anyone I asked chimed in . . . A democracy is a great thing . . .!!
Also glad you support penicillin!! I wish I'd gotten that poll to all before I did . . . but it did help the vote up to about 60% in favor inthat short time.
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Since it's Oneshot that is fading and failing, maybe a h2o paint mfgr. like PPG or NOVA would like to step up and sponsor the wall's 'restoration' using their product.
posted
That's a great idea, Billy. I agree. Lower overall costs and greater longevity is always a smarter way to go.
Jay, if the cost is $15k max annually and the Council covers 5/6's of the cost as you stated earlier, that leaves about $2550 to the City. And what is the City but the collective leadership of its citizens.
Doesn't the Council receive a portion of its funding from the City?
Not meaning to create an argument, it just seems to me that giving the citizens the opportunity to voluntarily support your cause through private donations would actually provide more money than the amount the City gives you.
If you take that figure you determined . . . $2550.00 . . . and multiplied that times 15 years you would have $38,250
The city has donated a scant $9,500.00 over those same 15 years. So are they carrying their share of the load? Hardly . . .
So if a TIF district - and this mural is within the boundaries of the expiring TIF - encompasses this mural and it would create a situation where the Arts Council has to do a major fundraising campaign - well, that's not fair when they are considering letting that money just go back in fractions to those same taxing districts that are fed by its existence. Why not appropriate it? It's likely a political move to discredit someone . . . and we're one of the chess pieces.
So instead of the money coming out of that large fund - which the community has already paid in to the TIF - we would have to do a multi-year fundraiser and make those same local citizens pay for the mural repainting - even though the check was written from the TIF's to pay for it - if so desired.
It's "their" money so "they" get to speak up - NOT the small town political bullies. And trust me, the murals are widely supported in Belvidere.
No, the Arts Council - which does amazing things for the city - receives zero dollars from the city. They are not even 'members' . . .
Billy . . . we're one step ahead of you . . . Nova - and depending on the final vote (which won't be in our favor) we would most certainly ask them for 'special help' since it is such a large and obvious mural that might be good advertising for them.
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The City Council was being asked to give $90,000 of the remaining available $193,000 in funds to the Arts Council for the purpose of mural maintenance. Based on your new numbers, the City Council had only been averaging $633 per year toward maintenance costs in the first place.
So, maintenance of the murals really isn't that big of an issue. The real issue is that you were expecting $90,000 and Sanderson mucked it up by getting a competing bid for nearly $11,000 less from elsewhere in spite of the understanding that only those involved in the Walldog organization were permitted to bid. This put up some red flags in the eyes of the City Council and they hit the brakes. If I were in your shoes, I'd feel like someone pulled the rug out from under me and I'd be PO'd, too.
I understand your frustration. What happened hurt. It hurt a lot.
The City Council has decided to table the mural maintenance funding and apply the money toward a building facade improvements program, a bus bench and parking lot improvements instead. So, its not like the money isn't going to be doing some good somewhere for the benefit of Belvidere.
So where does this leave the murals? Pretty much right where they've always been minus maybe $633 per year.
Based on what I read in the article, the TIF funds were never specifically for the murals but for improvements as the City Council deemed necessary.
So what if you have to hold a multi-year fundraiser. You're not "making the same local citizens pay" for anything. The TIF program was already doing that. But what you are doing is giving all Belvidere citizens who widely support the murals a chance to be involved voluntarily. And in doing so, I suspect you'll end up with a lot more than $633 every year and you won't have to deal with as much small-town politics either.
I write all of this not to cut you down but rather to encourage you to see the situation as an opportunity. A similar situation happened recently with an animal shelter that I and my company support in my county. In the end, the shelter actually came out for the better. Local vets donated more of their time. People who otherwise would have never got to know each other got together and raised more money than what the shelter ever received from the county. We as a community came out better for it. I hope this will encourage you toward the same.
posted
Don, CSA may not have taken over the Walldog thing but it sure has evolved into, IMHO, a very cliquish thing.
It is very sad that Walldog meets have seemingly replaced Letterhead meets. The Letterhead meets were all about learning and camaraderie whereas, again IMO, Walldog meets are not so much.
Jay, Glenn has an excellent suggestion there. I couldn't find the poll you spoke of so I voted for plastic.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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Bruce, I'm not sure where your comments about Walldogs are coming from, since I haven't seen you participate in at least the 5 most recent events. As far as inclusiveness and camaraderie, what could possibly be better than encouraging everyone who wants to paint to grab a brush? The feeling of leaving a town with a sense of pride, commitment and accomplishment is indescribable. Unlike Letterheads, these events involve whole communities and showcase the talents of the participants more than a Letterhead meet ever could. Don't get me wrong - I LOVE Letterhead meets and I credit them with the evolution of my skills to a level I couldn't have achieved alone, but ask anyone who's been to a Walldog meet in the last five years if it wasn't one of the most fun and meaningful experiences of their life......
posted
I do have a few questions when it comes to the Wall Dog meets. Just how much does a project leader get payed for their design / labour and such. From what I understand, most of the artist attending, pay their own way and living expenses, and then work for free. This has always been a sticking point for me. A bunch of artists roll into town, paint a number of murals below market value, and in the end, a few might benefit with some additional work down the road. I think what Bruce is trying to say is ( and I'm just guessing), a letterhead meet is all about sharing techniques, sign related information, and friendship, and directly benefit those who attend. Where as a Wall Dog meet seems to be about giving a town a marketing tool that they can then use to profit from. I think it would be a hard sell for a Mural Artist to get full value for a mural once a Wall Dog meet has been in the area. It's hard enough competing with the local artists, let alone a group using free labour. I guess it would be the same as a group of sign painters rolling into your town, doing all the main street signs below market value, and then leave the poor local sign maker to explain why they charges what they do. I can understand why those who attend these Wall Dog events do really enjoy them, and gives them a chance to see old friend, and also make new ones. I just wonder if in the big picture, it might also be hurting the value of painting murals. I'm sure I'll be flamed for my post, but I guess I just see it a different way.
[ August 26, 2012, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Rick Janzen ]
posted
Sounds like the project needs a bailout.... hehe... but seriously - why can't you simply establish a 'Belvidere Murals Festival'....showcasing the towns murals by bringing locals and out-of-towners in for a three day festival celebrating and cementing Belvidere's notoriety for the town's murals?
The 'top' of the proceeds go to maintaining the towns murals, and the balance going towards funding other town initiatives. Plus, the businesses gain a three-day boom in revenue's. Win/win for everyone.
Once a year brings fun and funds and keeps everything rolling.
I would be very opposed to having taxpayer dollars allotted to the maintenance of the murals; let a one weekend event bring money in in one fell swoop while promoting the murals at the same time.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Rick, I see your point of view and it reminds me of a conversation I had with Bob Bond many years ago about doing free vehicle graphics at Letterhead meets. Like most things, there are two sides to the story - should a paint job by some of the finest artists in the country be given away for free? I consider it a learning opportunity for those who don't know how and a teaching opportunity for those who do. Bob thinks the owner should pay for the service and I see where he's coming from, but if Kent Smith hadn't jammed some gold in my hand and "made" me gild a fire truck in Banff, I might never have learned. At least 3 other people working on that truck were also rookies - but we weren't when we finished.
With murals, I would hope that the towns graced by a Walldog event would understand their value and continue the tradition. (I know that happened in Pontiac) Other towns might also grasp that value and begin a public art program of their own. I'd like to hear from some of the people living in a "Walldog town" and see if that's the case.
"...a letterhead meet is all about sharing techniques, sign related information, and friendship, and directly benefit those who attend" Well, for me, a Walldog meet is very much a learning and sharing experience of design, color mixing, blending, paint techniques, etc. - it has directly benefited me with a marketing tool and portfolio with which to pursue this type of work locally. I understand the misgivings you've expressed Rick, but I gotta ask, how many Walldog meets have you personally attended?
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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The word "mural" would not be used in conversation - nor sought after in most of these towns the Walldogs paint in. So once we're gone, a market exists and any mural artist who suggests otherwise bucks 20 years of that happening in in every Walldog town . . .
Some towns fail, yes. If not supported and continued THAT is a risk. Politics enters into Belvidere's case - and that will doom any significant inititaive a city takes. But most towns suggest it STARTS a mural program and incubates mural artists opportunities to market there. Make sense?
I fail to understand why business people such as mural artists don't get that when we have 20 years of Walldog history that proves otherwise. Being part of it would change your mind . . . but if I was a full-time muralist, I'd be going where they know the product . . . past Walldog towns.
Disclosure: I'm an original Walldog and have attended all but a couple meets. Biased? Yes. Are these 'facts' or opinion? They are facts. But you can ask Sonny or any other full time Walldog and they'll most likely say the same.
Aside from that, I am also a public arts advocate. There simply isn't a more inclusive nor productive public art form out there than murals. Shouldn't all artists support that - or am I goofy?
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Thanks for the explanation, Sonny. I was a involved with the 1928 Reo Speedwagon project at the Moose Jaw Meet. I found the people wonderful, and Kelly did a great job organizing the event I also spent most of the meet working like a dog to get the job done. My Hotel was covered, and a few meals supplied, But I payed for the rest. I get payed well for mural work, so I don't have a need to spend my holidays painting them. But I also run into issues when bidding on a mural job, that other groups are willing to do them at a far lower cost. I worked hard to get my skill-set to a point where I feel confident taking on a mural project. So it's frustrating to see people bringing the value down (sort of like the sign business). It's hard enough to make a living as an artist, why do we want to lower the value of what we do. What's the point of learning to paint murals if their not worth doing. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem sharing information, and enjoy receiving the same from others (that's how we grow) but I feel we also need to keep the value in what we do. Jay's post reflects clearly how a town views the murals, and how they use them as marketing tool to create revenue. I read a lot of post here about charging for basic design work, but we give away murals for next to nothing at a meet. Sorry, that just how I see it. It's like the age old plan of "I'll do it cheap to get more work". We all know how that story ends.
posted
Rick . . . By the time the community is done putting on the public show with The Walldogs, they have anywhere from $30-$40 per square foot invested.
Check that against how you're charging to make a fair judgement.
And please know this, we're not irresponsible and not aware of that argument. That's why we point out to them that we would normally get $50 per sq. ft. 0 if not higher - so they are prepared for a professional muralist to be accepted at that price.
Please understand that 20 years of The Walldogs existence has found us figuring out how to address the concerns of other artists. Your immediate supposition that we do NOT 'prepare the ground' for future muralists did not take that into account.
Now that you know that fact, please understand . . . we're preparing the community to accept others who may wish to work there also - as private contractors.
We seldom return to a town to work . . . unless it is privately contracted. So there's a chance for you to travel to any town The Walldogs have painted in - and there's your new market potential.
You're welcome . . . (being funny - not pricky!!)
(P.S. - withregard to Kelly's meet, that's why we try to limit Walldog events. I think there was more than one that year - that limits attendance and strains everyone. We DO like to work hard, though. But it was also a new medium you were painting with - and that is going to slow you down too since you learn as you go.)
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jay, I understand the community putting out the money for the event, but not all of that money is making it to the artists involved. Hard to pay a bills that way. Not sure what you mean by: "But it was also a new medium you were painting with - and that is going to slow you down too since you learn as you go." as I am quite experienced at what I do, so it had nothing to do with a learning curve. I still would be interested in how much the project leaders are making, and do they distribute the fund amongst their teams. I believe your post is about losing the maintenance funding for the mural project, and also how the city isn't bucking up to their part of the deal, while reaping the benefit of the murals. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with getting together and sharing ideas and such. I just have a problem with the concept of giving a town or city a revenue generator at discounted cost. Has anyone taken the time to see how much work has been generated from these events, besides the few that live in these towns, or help organize them?
posted
Regarding your last question Rick, I just inked a deal with my town for a wall I've been wanting to paint for years. I gave the mayor photos of the projects I helped paint at Walldog meets, as well as contact numbers for the mayor of Danville and several administrators in Pontiac. (after speaking with the Pontiac folks, he asked me if we had hung the moon there - obviously impressed with their assessment) Without those endorsements and portfolio photos, this wall would probably stay ugly. Anecdotal? Sure, but it's working for me......
posted
I'd also like to address the stipend received by project leaders - in addition to design and implementation of the project, a project leader is asked to provide a maquette to be auctioned during the event. Plymouth racked up tens of thousands of dollars from the auction to help defray costs and provide a maintenance fund. The project leader is responsible for assembling a team and completing the mural - many have stayed for several days in order to fulfill their commitment. I can't speak for the others, but everyone on my team gets gas cards (or cash) to help with their transportation costs. I also pick up quite a few restaurant and bar tabs. The meets are structured now so that you can opt to stay with a local family instead of a hotel. I think this provides an even better experience for the artists as well as the host families. I had a conversation with Gary Anderson about this and he told me the money does not even begin to cover the number of hours spent in preparation. That said, I agree that we should begin to move toward having the artists paid at least a small portion of their expenses and I think we'll be seeing that in the future - Cincinnati has a great apprentice program with that premise. As far as debasing the value for mural artists, there's a non-profit group here called "Living Walls" who produce murals (free) in blighted areas of the city. Not exactly my cup of tea, but they are creating a buzz and, like Jay surmised, incubating the community for the concept of murals instead of ugly concrete walls. Several paid gigs have been the direct result. Just my 2 cents.....
posted
Rick - I understood that Keim paints were used at Kelly's meet - and that was new to The Walldogs . . . No disrespect to your abilities. Maybe you had painted with Keim . . . I don't know.
And Rick, are you doing 'fine art murals' with only heavy pictorials? The Walldogs paint old advertisement style 'murals' which technically are reproductions of what billboards might have looked like. I think you may be comparing apples and oranges here.
With regard to the tremendous responsibility that project leaders put out and how they are 'paid': They get paid about enough to close their shop doors for 5 days and go work for free - once they've spent hours executing a mural design, managing the project and then paying for travel out of their own pockets. Beyond that, they typically will print out team t-shirts for their fellow Walldogs on the wall - and I even get gas money for my troubles.
Our benevolence should be admired before our methods or our transparency about details should be questioned. That is commenting without knowing the details.
That said, being a project leader doesn't sound like such a fruitful proposition, now does it?
But there's a market for you when we leave . . .
With regards to the funding of the Belvidere murals, there were political games I can't go into because it just doesn't matter. But it is a hornets nest there now - and local editorials have popped up and we see we are more widely supported - so vote or no vote, it didn't matter. I've worked to preserve the 'gift' The Walldogs left them in 1997 It appears you might not do the same . . . but it is my hometown.
It's too crazy to explain - with regards to the politics in belvidere - and it involves a 'regime change'. I simply asked people for votes.
"If you can't say anything nice..."
(And ignore Pete Payne. He secretly wishes he lived stateside . . .
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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this is all good info that needed to get out there. I can see some of Rick's concerns but hope some of this information can help, for far too long the impression has been 'free murals' and I think that is where some of this comes from. I haven't been to one for quite a while, but is the public of the town informed of the value, maybe a giant cheque presentation in front of tyhe public to the mayor, with the value of the murals on it? When I do 'free' stuff for charities I arrange a cheque swap for the full value of the signs, that creates a paper trail for tax reasons and it has to go through their bookeeping, creating more awareness of the value. Sometimes just telling them a value doesn't sink in, and it might help them to decide to look after a very expensive asset.Some of this needs to be in sign mags too, for those that don't check here
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
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Now David, be nice to Jay, I doubt he's been on a motorcycle since the Belvidere meet, and he'd never survive a ride all the way to Sonny's. This post has been some godd airing out of a long simmering issue, even though it didn't start that way, and as usual Jay is in the middle of it
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
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I'm attracted to the Light, Pete . . . Like a moth.
Au contraire, Separatist' Payne . . . I HAVE been on a bike since then - more than a few. But I just bought a used Yamaha scooter. It tops out with a single trans at 30-32mph (that's miles per hour - not what you guys use...)
I figured I would be safe on that.
It's for my son at college - but Jody says 'it comes home in the summers' . . . so I guess I bought a scooter for them. When I am more awake and had more rest than I did during my 'stunt riding' in Belvidere in '97 I am pretty solid on 2 wheels. Go figure . . .
Who in their right mind would ever think that a guy with 13 hours of sleep in 5 days wouldn't be able to handle a full dress 1000 pound Harley on a small city side street? I still think it slipped in thinner . . . and Chip Carter jinxed me by saying "let's not make this a 'before' picture" as he took my photo on the offending two-wheeler just prior to 'takeoff' . . .
Back to the murals . . . those who have been there since the start of The Walldogs have managed to turn it into a not-for-profit in the state of Iowa - which can be used to run the festivals through so sponsors get tax deductions for the event . . . the project leaders are only getting expenses covered (and then acting in a sharing way wuith their 'teams') . . . and we are booked until 2016 because while some in our professional circles doubt our mission and our goals, other communities have heard and seen the way it turns a town upside down for a few days - and renews a sense of spirit seriously lacking in small towns that are struggling now.
We all do it at a loss (volunteering as I prefer now - having been a project leader - as you 'lose less' in my mind) by leaving our homes and businesses and painting future 'ghost signs' in a town where no public art existed - or very little. It is an economic jump start that illustrates the need for man to tell his story - which we started doing in caves 32,000 years ago.
It is as much a part of our very essence that 'symbolic thought' is painted on the vertical surfaces of where we live for over 30,000 years says something, doesn't it?
Read this quote. I think it speaks to what WE - those of us alive on the planet today - need to consider about letting the 'future us' know what we did and why. That is noble - and to also promote public artists to come in after us shows we as a group - not individuals - are thinking about helping ALL people at NOBODY'S expense. We heard you - we are working to help you - Please support us (though that's me talking and not the whole group):
"The destiny of man is: They come, they suffer, they go and are forgotten....but shall we leave no memorial to future generations of our existence? Shall we not add our mite to the general stock of knowledge, morality and religion? Shall we not strive to make our descendents more happy, more virtuous than our ancestors?
If so, we shall not have lived in vain, but shall have added a link to the progressive chain of perfection, and future generations will honor us, not as individuals, but as a part of a community who have employed their energies and wisdom for the amelioration and elevation of the Human family.
Let it therefore be our ambition to contribute our mite to this result, and we shall have accomplished the aim and end of our existence."
That came from a letter by Stephen Mack and was written after the death of his sister. But the point is . . . WE OWE the future - and The Walldogs understand that.
No town will throw away ONE brochure from a muralist after we leave . . . They will treat you as royalty - because they understand once they work with us.
Again, my words - so if Sonny or any others would like to chime in, by all means . . .
[ August 27, 2012, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Jay Allen ]
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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just in case you missed it Jay, I agreed with you, too bad some of this info wasn't published years ago. And no, I don't want to live state side, not a separatist, I live in the wrong province for that, and what's a nuralist?
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
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'Nuralist' edited to read correctly, Proofreader Pete!!
Gotta agree with Pete, David . . . it wasn't a "ride" . . . What do you think, Pete? Maybe better that we call it a 'journey' . . . lol
I know you understood and agree with the good we've done, Peter. Trust me. I truly know you understood. But it was a great opportunity to talk about it. Nuttin' to hide . . . but rumors always get a foothold well before the truth. That's just life . . .
It's all good . . .
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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