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On another thread, Craig Sjoquist said:"we are human." It reminds me of some thing I've been wondering about for years, maybe you have some input. When a hand letterer makes some words, there are bound to be little inconsistencies, the curve leading into a serif, the width of an M, things like that. When this becomes too pronounced, it's just bad craftsmanship. But too far the other way and it's computer lettering. I'm wondering if since hand lettering is made by humans, to be viewed by humans, there's a certain relationship, a compatibility that machine letters cannot make.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Now doing 2" Helvetica on a door glass is not very human at all as it needs to look like a machine did it, but a 70 foot wide showroom window where you have too many letters for the individual windows, the human part really kicks in against the verticle mullions. Kerning a V over closer to a letter A...or making that W or M seem about the right width against a couple of 'I's can get touchy. Then there is making the letters dance and look zippy and lively... I find sometimes it is all about just getting in the groove and it all comes together...and then sometimes, no matter how hard I try, it still looks stiff and clumsy. It even is affected by how courteous the client is!
The problem with computer letters is that they always look like perfect display ads. In my line of window splashes, I try to make them have some punch and dance. Contrasting formal and informal letters helps...fading colors and multi outlining are other tricks that help. Anymore, the client today, is not nearly as picky as the visual miasma of what everyone else has is so boring that they think they have to be boring as well, just to look like they are part of the pack.
I do not think of it as being 'human' but more that the letters have to have some magical punch. Of course with what I do, people still want that, to some degree. I guess it all depends on the nature of the job. When you are doing a funeral show card, it needs to look kinda dead!
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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It's kinda like music. When a machine produces it, yeah it's perfect everytime. But when a human picks up a instrument, now that's real music. Just like we could take the brush and make the letters swoosh and sparkle a musican takes his instrument and can add a few extra notes. He may never get that moment again, but for a moment, it's beautiful. I don't think a machine can produce the graceful little strokes of a hand lettered font that can flow so well with the overall layout.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3814 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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James, What you're referring to was generally known as "style" or "personality". Before the introduction of computer-assisted lettering, one could usually tell at a glance, who had lettered any specific job. Their individuality and personal style showed clearly, and there were those whose mastery of their own style set their work apart.
Others could be seen as "developing" craftspeople, whose work may have been technically good, but their "style" hadn't yet become distinctive enough to be instantly recognizeable.
Others still, had work out there that clearly was indicative that they hadn't made any great deal of effort toward the study of basic letterforms and their structure. It simply looked amateurish and slovenly.
The ironic thing is that even with the introduction of perfectly cut computer assisted letterforms, we still see work that falls into that latter category. I once heard a statement ( can't honestly recall who made the observation, but it wasn't me ) that the introduction of computer cut vinyl has enabled a whole bunch of people to make ugly signs, perfectly.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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You guys are very correct; I'm interpreting Preston and Alicia as saying pretty much the same thing. Window splash is where you can cut loose, really get expressive, I guess it's the Led Zeppelin or L.V. Beethoven of the sign world. Ken, I know what you're saying; for better or worse. There used to be a guy in the Sacramento area that had a style that looked as though he was using a big striping sword to do his script lettering. It looked nice, but then again, he used it too much. What I'm talking about though, is a little different than what's been said in your replies. What I mean is, remember back BC, when a customer handed you a business card, it was formal and nice looking. You were told to make it look just_like_the_card. So the sign was crisp and well executed, formal, clean, the whole bit. But you could tell it was made by hand. Just had a certain look. Call it alive, I'm not sure. I hate it when I have to quote somebody I'd really rather not quote, but they said it so well. On preparedness, General Curtis LeMay said:"We are at war now!". L Ron Hubbard said:"Art is communication." I like those quotes. The above is a long winded way to say I don't like the next comparison, but it's all I've got. Here we go: Before I was a Christian, I was a drug user. I hung around the biker-crank crowd. People talk a lot, you know, and so you hear about these different properties of meth. From what I understand, it's a poison of sorts, that's carefully made to an exact likeness of human PH level. Because of that, it soaks into your body, but then your body reacts, and your systems go into hyper drive to expel the toxin. I'm no chemist, just what I heard. SO-O-O-O, I'm thinking that if a tight, formal layout where the sign maker had no say in the design was executed by a hand letterer, and by a computer-vector machine; the hand painted one would be more appealing, because it "soaks" in more. Made by a human for a human. Just a theory.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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-------------------- dennis kiernan independent artist san francisco, calif, usa Posts: 907 | From: san francisco, ca usa | Registered: Feb 2010
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Style and power, some of those signatures could effect big consequences . I once learned some lettering basics from a guy that said he could tell if someone would be a good sign painter by looking at their signature. My signature is kind of blah, maybe that's why I've struggled all these years
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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I know it's o.t., but I can spot a machine carved vs a good hand carved letter every time, and the hand carved are usually esthetically superior.
-------------------- Steve Purcell Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking Cape Cod, MA
************************** Intelligent Design Is No Accident Posts: 900 | From: Cape Cod, MA | Registered: Oct 1999
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I always liked the expression related to almost perfect hand lettering as "The slight imperfections of a master craftsman". Also as a shocard writer, I could transfer my feeling on to the card, class or standard. The American Sign Museum has some of the most beautiful examples of hand lettering on every type of sign.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
. I once learned some lettering basics from a guy that said he could tell if someone would be a good sign painter by looking at their signature.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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