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Hello Letterheads! Been forever since I've been here. I hope the world has been treating you all well.
I have a question & searched the archives, but I can't seem to find my answer.
I'm sure you've all been through something like this as artistic people... My daughter's friend's parents have opened up a new family entertainment business in an old community center. It's got various bounce-arounds, a rock wall, some other activities for birthday parties & whatnot. But they have very little operating cash. One thing they desperately need (& should've planned for better) is an updated sign. The large sign at the entrance to the parking lot is still for the previous rec center, which is confusing for their customers, to say the least. Unfortunately, the friend's mother has turned to me to help her out. (Ugh.)
The sign is one of those big plastic rectangles that mounts inside a metal frame. It appears from the outside as if the letters were masked & sprayed black in reverse from the inside, then the background white sprayed or rolled over the entire backside. There are no molded letters, just the paint. (I had taken a photo, but I must've accidentally deleted it.)
My question is this... Can the old paint be stripped from the inside of the plastic without ruining it? She's hoping to salvage what she has, as they obviously don't have the cash to replace it. My personal opinion is they should find a way to pay for a new sign from a professional shop, but these people have become good acquaintances & now I think they're expecting me to somehow "save the day" by removing the old lettering & replacing it with new paint. I could either paint the new sign in reverse on the inside like the old one, or just fill in a background inside & put vinyl lettering on the outside.
Is this possible? If so, how would I go about removing the old paint without wrecking the plastic? What product/process would it require? ANY INPUT ON THIS WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!
-------------------- Marge Cameron Cameron Arts, Inc. Posts: 56 | From: Salem, Ohio | Registered: Jun 2009
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It can be done- it has to be stripped (from the back) then re-painted in reverse- I can't remember the type of paint and stripper that is used... but I do remember it wasn't cheap and was a pain to apply evenly (for lighted signs) by the time you spend $$$ on materials and the messy messy labor involved, and assuming the sign faces can be taken out and handled a lot without breaking or damaging them---it would be just as cheap to purchase a couple of sheets of new acrylic faces, in whatever color you want and start from scratch... sorry it wasn't the answer you were looking for.
When I worked at a commercial sign shop, I had the joy of doing this exact project on 6 panels, they were such a pain to do correctly that I got to re-do them several times before they were right, then one of the panels got cracked as they were re-installing it into the sign cabinet...
my opinion- start fresh or walk away!
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1735 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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Instead of this I would just buy new pan face. too messy to remove im my opinion
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
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Tell them cover it with a banner until they can do it right (and replace it properly). Just because they have no money for the project doesn't justify what they are asking you to do.
-------------------- Joy Kjer Art On Display Signs 4001 Randolph St Lincoln, NE
"My life has a superb cast, but I can't figure out the plot." Posts: 445 | From: 4001 Randolph St. Lincoln, NE | Registered: Jun 2002
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I suspected that new plastic might be the same expense as materials & labor for stripping it, but I just had to ask. I've tackled stuff like that in the past to salvage things for customers & then regretted it every step of the way.
The banner is a great idea! I can do 2 of those quickly & inexpensively, too. Then when they have the money to do it right, they can hire SOMEONE ELSE to do the plastic replacement! LOL
While we're at it, anybody have a good source for ordering that kind of thing? I do handpainted, airbrushed & vinyl stuff, not the fancy lit commercial ones, so I have no clue what direction to point her.
Thanks, everyone! Nice to know this place still rocks!
-------------------- Marge Cameron Cameron Arts, Inc. Posts: 56 | From: Salem, Ohio | Registered: Jun 2009
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Insanity is more valuable than savings.I just distroyed 2 yellow flat sheets of plex trying to remove a reverse black bkg.Honestly I saved nothing.
-------------------- Bill Wood Bill Wood, Sign Artist 3628 Ogburn Ave., NE Winston-Salem, NC 27105-3752 336-682-5820 Posts: 397 | From: Winston-Salem, NC | Registered: May 2006
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Go with Joy's idea.....You have no idea of what you are going to save. Mostly , in time.
If you choose to clean the faces, I am assuming, that you will, first, prepare a pattern for the new copy......Then, the real fun starts, here is a typical example:
1 - Removing the faces from the box.
2 - Extreme hard work in removing the old copy, with lots of lacquer thinner and lots of old newspapers, on top of a couple of saw horses.
3 - Re-masking the back of the faces ( with liquid masking, which you can spray or roll ), for the new copy.
3 - Layout of the new copy, on each face (if it is a double face sign ).
4 - Cutting of the masking, with x-acto knife, from each sign face.
5 - Spray the new copy and background, evenly, with Lacryl paint. Which, incidentally, has to be thinned to a "certain" consistency for proper spraying and it should, always, be sprayed ( from darkest color to lightest one ) at a parallel distance from the face of the sign .
6 - Re-installing the faces back in place ( Before you do this, check the lamps to see if they need to be replaced ).
Now, once you have done all this work, you are going to end up with a new sign that, still, has the old marks of the x-acto knife used to cut the previous copy......Those old marks will not disappear.........Never !.....and, will, always, be seen from the front side of the sign faces.
This is the best I can do to help you in making a wise decision with your project.
Lacryl 400 Series Paints - Wensco Sign Supplies www.wensco.com/products/categories.aspx?CatID=2185...Y... Lacryl 400 Series Paints are designed for spray application to acrylic, impact modified acrylic, and polycarbonate sign faces, as well as most rigid and flexible ...
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Joy's idea is the best. Very few sign shops back spray clear faces anymore. It's mostly first surface translucent vinyl on white lexan or acrylic. I used to spray a lot of faces back in the day and I don't miss it one bit. If you decide to strip use denatured alcohol. Petroleum products will harm the plastic.
-------------------- Sam Staffan Mackinaw Art & Sign 721 S. Nokomis St. Mackinaw City, MI dstaffan@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1694 | From: Mackinaw City, MI | Registered: Mar 2004
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I did one for Lake Compounce in CT on their Large Ferris Wheel. It had a Carousel horse and name of the park masked from the back. I sanded the entire area off from the inside then painted a huge American flag on the outside using House of Colors Candy Colors Urethanes. You can control the transparency to allow the light to come through. The background was done in base coat white with a little blue added to get a sky / baby blue color. This was built up until it was opaque. about 3 even coats. The whole thing was then top coated with a UV automotive clear. Looks great day and night.
-------------------- John Browning JBG John Browning Graphics 439 East St Hebron CT Posts: 75 | From: Hebron Ct | Registered: May 2008
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The paint that is used is called Grip Flex, and you absolutely have to know what kind of Substrate it is. Most times it's lexan, if it is you have to use a special thinners, called t2003 by Gripflex... it won't melt the lexan, if it's acrylic, regular Laquer thinners will work, but Laquer thinners will melt Lexan.. Confusing? All the more reasons to go with the first suggestions.... lol
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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I wrecked a whole sheet years ago (1980s) when asked to strip paint off it. An old 1/2 a can of stripper wasn't quite enough, so I started a fresh can to finish it. This can had a very slightly different chemical composition to the similarly-marked older can, and which melted right into the acrylic face...I should have read the fine print twice!
New acrylic sheet is not all that expensive...
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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The suggestion of the banner is excellent! Unless you are a lucky gambler, buying new white faces and using translucent vinyl would be the only way to go in my opinion. There are just too many ways for something to go wrong trying to salvage and repaint the old ones, especially if it's your first time. I did a lot of this sort of thing thirty years ago at one of the shops I worked at.....P.I.T.A. If the sign face has been stripped a few times prior they are real bad about getting brittle and when you go to install them the slightest little twist has them breaking into a million pieces.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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Stripping acrylic and polycarbonate are different and both are stinky jobs. The use of strong chemicals and lots of scraping and scrubbing should be expected and done in a well ventilated area while wearing a good respirator. I've done it too many times and am surprised that I didn't learn to just replace the material the first time.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi Marge, Re-doing plastic faces is a nasty job, period. I've done it lots of times, but it's not worth the mess and hassle anymore. And like said above, you have to know whether the old faces are acrylic or polycarb, before doing anything..........or you'll have a real disaster on your hands.
Even if you manage to do the job, lots of times, you'll wind up with "ghosts" or cut marks that show up thru the new lettering.
I've tried to stay away from the translucent vinyl applied to the outside of faces. Drive around many bigger cities and look at signs, done that way, that are only a year or two old; many are all bleached out from weathering. Many newer channel letters are suffering similarly, where suppliers are making the faces out of cheap clear acrylic, the using translucent vinyl to color them for the customer.
The old back-painting is still the most durable way, and newer, more economical techniques are being developed. In Ohio, do a search for a company called Plastic Identification; or try Faces (800-800-FACE) They're in Georgia, but have always done me right.
For temporary, the banner might be a way to go. Or, if the sign is not too big, make some temporary faces out of "the dreaded" coroplast. Keep in mind, the key word here is "Temporary".
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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First of all, I agree with Dale about calling FACES.
If your daughter's friend's parents, all of a sudden , should come up with the money........I would, really, call FACES, LLC and have them do your sign face or faces for you.......Their work is first class.....I have used them several times and they have never made me look bad.......All you would have to do is call them and e-mail them your new art work......You will have your sign faces, crated and delivered by UPS or Fed-Ex, at your door in no time......Painted, like they should be.
If you choose to have them do your faces, when you call them, ask for "Bear"....one of their sales people.....and deal with him. He is a fantastic person to deal with.
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I talked t a guy that used to do it. He said at LEAST 9 out of 10 times the face will break. It's just not worth it.
On the banner idea, some of the banner people will make sign covers, vinyl on both faces, both sides, and the top. You just pull the whole thing over the sign, just like a toaster cover. MMT will print your full color graphics and it's very reasonable or you can letter it with vinyl yourself.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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