posted
With the confidence of a Dan Sawatzky, the impetuousness of a Timi Barrow, and the fearlessness of a Don Hulsey, I have just submitted a bid for the largest (by far) project I've ever encountered. This baby is around 100K and, truth be told, I'm scared to death I might get it.....
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Git real Sonny yer just skeert ya might actually have to paint all them lines and constellations or what ever all them things are on that file,...hahahahahahaha
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Welcome to my life Sony! A 100K job is medium size. What can possibly go wrong? I signed a small job today for only 10K. Still worth doing none-the-less.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Sonny...Fear not! I bid a job and got it, in the same $100K range. Scared the hell outta me. But it got done and really did change our lives.
Paid off the mortgage and brought the bank balance into the black.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Like Dale said, "schedule it around Dega weekend!!
I will be working at the speedway for a week & always have a day that is free!
Tony
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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Don't sweat it Sonny, it's only money. Just don't forget to get a deposit before you start
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Remember Sonny ole pal if you need a ride to the bank, I'm here for you Bro...
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Sonny, I understand your fear. I'd like to understand it from a more intimate position though. I've never touched anything bigger than the ten K range.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6715 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Our biggest project to date was $43,000 which included several directional signs for a church. Payment was made in three installments (third down, third in 30 days and third upon completion).
A few items were added as the project developed and they were just added to the last payment.
Dan takes on this type work while he is waiting on something big to come in.
In 2011, the biggest project was $15,000 (one sign) and was basically built and installed by someone else.
Keep us informed on the progress.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thanks for the well-wishes, but the bid was based on a worst-case scenario because there was not nearly enough information for this big a project. I asked about doing a walk-thru and the building hasn't even been built yet. Another kicker is that it's in another state, so I figured "Go Big or Go Home".
Like Si says, you won't get it if you don't ask, but they're probably going to look at my quote and have a good chuckle......
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Over the years, I've hit on a few of those. They can be scary but if you've done your homework, they come out just fine. I wouldn't mind another one right about now...
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Good luck Sonny. I hope you get it. I had one big one about 10 years ago, almost $400k. Scared me to death, but had a happy ending. Wish I could get another one right about now, I'm getting tired of hoping for "breakeven" every month.
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1266 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Big jobs certainly carry some risk but it can be negotiated and planned away. As others have said deposits are critical as are regular draws. It is important to keep working with the client's money and not yours. The thing about big projects that I love is that you don't have to deal with so many people on a daily basis. Pricing and negotiations only happen a few times each year instead of daily or hourly as most shops do. While I love the excitement of making a deal , my heart is really in the design and building stages of the project.
On big projects asking for money for designing is easy and expected by the client. Design alone often runs into the tens of thousands of dollars. That is my kind of project!
Big dollar clients tend to not sweat the big numbers those kind of projects demand. The important thing is to not promise what you can't deliver.
Big projects mean your small clients will have to wait in line.
Still if you can handle it the big dollar projects can be lucrative and lots of fun!
grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Dan Sawatzky: Big jobs certainly carry some risk but it can be negotiated and planned away. As others have said deposits are critical as are regular draws. It is important to keep working with the client's money and not yours. The thing about big projects that I love is that you don't have to deal with so many people on a daily basis. Pricing and negotiations only happen a few times each year instead of daily or hourly as most shops do. While I love the excitement of making a deal , my heart is really in the design and building stages of the project.
On big projects asking for money for designing is easy and expected by the client. Design alone often runs into the tens of thousands of dollars. That is my kind of project!
Big dollar clients tend to not sweat the big numbers those kind of projects demand. The important thing is to not promise what you can't deliver.
Big projects mean your small clients will have to wait in line.
Still if you can handle it the big dollar projects can be lucrative and lots of fun!
grampa dan
Super advise and I totally agree. Never work with your own money, but explain them: when they give a downpayment that money, besides your investment in time and raw products, is their investment in the progress of the job.
posted
This is an interesting thread at an interesting time...
We're jumping into arenas we've never before considered, since getting the router, but equally interesting are two old horse-drawn vehicle restoration/building jobs that have landed here in the past 8 months...the gypsy waggon I mentioned in a thread last December, and another coach I have to quote on, with a figure about 2/3 to 3/4 of Sonny's 'fearful' estimate. A few years ago I'd never have dreamed to be pricing stuff in the brackets I am, but I still maintained a standard back then-and it has paid off; though maintaining an accurate time schedule can be murderously tricky!
Thanks, Sonny, & all the best with your quote!
I did quote on a job last month that I did not get- but then I am not sure I particularly wanted it either, given the client's timeframe. It would have been questionably difficult, even at $33k for three signs, to be finished & installed in under four weeks, 2000 km away, and all engineer certified-the design & the finished installed job. All were illuminated 3D stuff, one was 16 ft long by 5 ft high & 12" thick...and double-sided. It would have involved getting the specific 'recycled' materials from Sydney, 1100km south, bringing it home to roughly set up, dry-fitting it in Adelaide, 2000 km away, back home to finish properly, & then deliver back to Adelaide to fit properly...
Maybe I was too cheap (?), but there were a host of unknowns on that one, and waters I had not treaded before. And we are really busy trying to finish the work we have on the books at the moment-and spending all the money on the new workshop extension.
[ February 17, 2012, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Several years ago we turned down a very large job, even though it would have been in the $150,000 range.
One of the reasons for denial was that we had no say in the design - just replicate what someone else had done in another location. That takes all the fun out of the job and turns it into punching the clock.
Also, the deadline was tight for a small shop and there was no time to train more personnel (although Dan would possibly have accomplished it). Just trying to work a large amount of materials through our small shop would have been a logistics nightmare.
In the end, I'm glad that I turned it down.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Another few tips: If your client asks you how long for delivery, make sure you qualify that time is from the time the deposit is received and your shop drawings and samples are approved. Getting the check cut and have the drawings, and revisions approved can take a long time, eating into your production schedule. With a job of this size, attention to detail is critical otherwise you may have to make good on items you've over looked. If appropriate, actual finished samples should be approved as well. Neither you nor they want any surprises upon completion. As well, with a job of this size, you will probably need to sub out some of the production or finishing. The same diligence is needed when dealing with your sub contractors. Make sure they understand your quality expectation and that they can deliver on time. Then there's permits and engineering costs if applicable. My biggest concern with the big jobs is letting down your small clients while your shop is bogged down. When quoting, break the job down into smaller parts, so you can ensure that attention to details. Is this a few huge signs, or lots of little ones? Are you installing or supplying only? Do the signs need to be crated for shipping? Lastly, run credit checks on the client and your subcontractors. Make sure your subs are up to date on Workers Compensation Insurance and general liability insurance.
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I signed a small job today for only 10K. Still worth doing none-the-less.
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