posted
"Art school" or "graphic design"? I've always cut the "art school", "college degrees in art" people a good bit of slack as their training usually related to signs and advertising. The "graphic design" people are the ones that drive me nuts. Just what are they teaching in these classes and who the hell is doing the teaching? Oh, they know all the buttons to push in regards to software tricks but contrast, readability are obviously foreign to them, never mind something so basic as scaling or proportion.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
quote:Originally posted by George Perkins: "Art school" or "graphic design"? I've always cut the "art school", "college degrees in art" people a good bit of slack as their training usually isn't related to signs and advertising. The "graphic design" people are the ones that drive me nuts. Just what are they teaching in these classes and who the hell is doing the teaching? Oh, they know all the buttons to push in regards to software tricks but contrast, readability are obviously foreign to them, never mind something so basic as scaling or proportion.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Todd, which school did you attend? I am also curious as too how many actual design and art classes a typical art student would have in a four year program.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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I say 'art school' as a general term, I guess... but I just found out the guy own his own marketing company. The customer that he did the logo for provided me the logo - so I may be in error in judging this guy.
The small file he sent them may have been used for some sort of small print-related item. I have contacted him, and am hoping he gets back to me quickly with a logo file better suited for a larger format output.
David - I went to Kendall College of Art & Design located in Grand Rapids, MI. That was way before computers though! :-)
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Oh... David - not sure about 'today's' student, but back in the early 80's, almost every class was design/layout/art related. The only ones I took that were not (technically speaking) were photography (2 semesters), Art History (which I hated), and Writing Composition (which I loved). Also had a TV Production class - had to design and shoot our own 'lip sync' commercial. Boy, I would love to have a copy of that tape. I did 'Only the Good Die Young' by Billy Joel. haha.
I actually graduated with their AFA Graphic Design degree, which was a 3 year Graphic Design degree.
They offered a 2 year 'Certificate', a 3 year AFA, or a 4 year BFA at the time.
Classes included: Design & Layout, Illustration, Life Drawing, Design Concepts, etc in several progressive levels.
I thought about doing the last year for my BFA, but that year would have been all non-graphic/design classes.... which I didn't feel would be worth the big $$$ that this private college charged (Kendall is now owned by Ferris State University - but retains it's separate college status).
My thought was that I would get hired on my portfolio anyway - so why incur more student debt and waste another year when I didn't feel it would be beneficial.
My best buddy and room-mate crafted a six foot long male genitalia out of a large cardboard carpet core we found in a dumpster.
We added all the appropriate (or maybe it was 'inappropriate') detail one might visualize in such a sculpture.... and then took it and a roll of duct tape down to the local Big Boy restaurant.
This particular Big Boy had it's 'Big Boy' statue holding a hamburger with a big ol' smile on his face on ground level.... he was about 10 feet tall with spot lights aimed at him while he rotated 360 degrees in the front of the restaurant.
Yes... we strapped this 'member' onto the waste of Big Boy.... and parked across the street to watch the ensuing chaos. LOL.... stupid kids.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I thought it might have been Kendall. We were there last year for Grand Rapids big city wide art show. Saw the cool mural on the side of the school. That town and the art school right there had me thinking I wouldn't have minded the art school experience.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Our local college's graphics design class tours a number of local print shops from quick prints to high end litho shops to my humble screen/digital shop.
I spend a couple of hours generating samples of their class "logo". Cutting vinyl and letting them weed it. while showing them the difference between a "clean" vector file and the one's we all gripe about. We print the same logo on my Edge and than they all pull a squeegie and print it on some scrap magnetic stock.
They love the hands on tour here and they learn to produce good files that can be used by a sign shop as is. Over the years that I've been doing this a number of business owner parents or other business where they have landed jobs, have showed up at my doorstep looking for graphics and they've all brought a CD with them with clean graphics ready to print or cut.
It's a great way to get word out to up and coming graphic students and generate some good will also.
I've found this a great way to
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1357 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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depends on the school and what kind of teachers/emphasis they are currently doing. The first college I went to had an incredible instructor- he taught all of the art related courses, he was a former medical illustrator and an unbelievable painter. he taught a great foundation of graphic design (then referred to as simply "commercial art") design composition, typography, color theory, etc. He also taught drawing and painting (more of the fine art emphasis) and of course art history.
The second place I checked out was an "art institute" and was very much fine art driven (ironically I took my first computer graphic design course there) I didn't stay there long, it was not a good fit for me.
I ended up at a different university that had a pretty good balance between fine art and commercial art. Computer graphics was just coming onto the scene as I was finishing, but depending on the instructor, you might get all the way thru school with a very limited set of skills. At the time they had abandoned the printmaking part of the program, so I missed all of that- they now have brought that back, and I am considering going back to get some of those classes under my belt just for my own enjoyment.
All of that to say- it appears that most of the recent college educated "graphic designers" that are coming out have a very limited set of skills and a very narrow view of the vastly different areas of real world "commercial art". The old school ways of "hands on" drawing and designing have been replaced with learning software... having a cool computer and tech gadgets no more makes you an effective designer than having a camera makes you a skilled photographer-- it is what is inside the brain and what you do with the tools that ultimately separates you from the posers and wannabes...
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1736 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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Everyone's an artist! Don't you know that?....lol
I had an arrogant rich customer in my office the other day... He said, "don't you just get it off the internet?" I replied,"Yes, I just turn my computer on and $ start printing out"...
LOL!
It's A TRUE ART to get your customer to respect you and your TIME that you spend on his ART.
Cheers!
-------------------- Summit Signs 231 Victoria Rd Venice, Fla 34293 sales@summitsign.com http://www.summitsign.com Design Is The Difference. Posts: 271 | From: Venice, Fla | Registered: Mar 1999
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computer GRAPHIC ARTIST....drive me crazy. how can they even consider what they know as ARTIST? most cant draw a stick figure without CLIPART!!!! when i had the shop i would have kids come in looking for work, telling me right off the bat they was GRAPHIC ARTISTS!!! i would give them a big yellow legal pad & # 2 pencil....and say DRAW ME SOMETHING!!! and they would stand there with deer in the headlights look.....and tell me they CANT DRAW, vut do all their work on a computer!! NEXT i would ask if they had experiance using post hole digger, hammer, skill saw and shovel...OH I DONT DO ANY OF THAT....and that would end the conversation!!!! i like most old timers here, at 4-5 years old had the "nack." 1st grade teacher told my parents they had an artist on their hands, as i was doing 3-4 grade level art in 1st grade. i was fortunate enough to have 2 old time sign painters start me early, before i got to be a teen. then when i started getting interested in cars, i found ED ROTH,and his art, could draw it from memory. my high school classes the best i was good at was WOOD, METAL SHOP and MECHANICAL DRAFTING. it was required couse in 8th grade, but i elected to take it the next 4 years. as for my grades, if hadnt taken the drafting, i probably wouldnt have graduated. after high school i went to drafting school for 2 more years. we got into the perspective, oblique, & isometric drawing, and i would freehand the drawings. the instructor told me me i was in the wrong line of work to be doin that, but he would check drawing to mechanical specs....and i was right on))))) my point is if you cant draw, why call yourself a graphic artist? might as well go for brain surgeon....because you read a book on it)))))
[ February 10, 2012, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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There are lots of talented young designers out there, and I know some amazing designers who can't draw worth a lick. But, designers are usually dealing with printed materials and web design, which don't require as much contrast as signs. They also don't have to worry about clean vector files as long as they can get them to print.
I had a few amazing teachers that gave me good foundation in design, so will never say that going to school is a bad thing. On the other hand, we didn't learn anything about making signs or preparing files to cut vinyl.
I learned all of my Illustrator skills outside of class and I learned to prepare for vinyl when I was working as a graphic designer on campus. We were doing a lot of presentation materials for professors and kept needing to get lettering cut at the university sign shop. The sign guys didn't know a thing about their computer, except how to send a file to cut, so I had to learn to set up the files myself. This exposure to signs made an impression on me. I always create vectors with the idea that they will be cut out or screen printed. I learned about sign design while working for a small ad agency. I remember once doing some billboards (small ones) that were difficult to read when they are finally installed. The client didn't say anything to us, but I was upset with myself knowing the the client had wasted money. From that point I paid a lot more attention to contrast and layout.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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dan said he couldnt draw WELL......but he could DRAW)))) Consider that. most people who do DRAW, no matter how the THEY describe their level of ability, and most i know who cam draw, dont say they do it very well, most say i can draw enough to get by. all depends on who you compare your ability to. none of us are DIVINCI, PICASSO, DEGAS or RUBINES. so we find modern artist we try to relate to. VARGAS, FRAZETTA, VELJHO are the ones wish i was as good as. lot of kids today that draw go for ANEMIA or COMIC BOOKS. my self even with having the "nack" as a child, drafting school, and couple years fine art training at PENN STATE still dont see my self as being able to draw......very well))))) but i can get by.
[ February 12, 2012, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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so I would make the entire image into a bitmap and use PhotoZoom 4 to increase the pixels until it is useable, unless you can't use that program on a Mac...........in which case I would just gripe about the person that sent it in the first place
this is coming from a fellow graduate
no really, I agree with you, just yanking your chain a little
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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I like it when someone brings you an image that is about 600px at the longest dimension. I have had a many conversations similar to this.
me: "Do you have the original image?" them: "This is the original image." me: "Do you have the file that came from the digital camera?" them: "Well, we cropped it down for our website. I'm not sure where that original is. me (inside): !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cameras these days have amazing resolution but I hardly ever see the original image delivered.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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i have a FUJI HS20, 16 mega pixel. at that setting my photos come off the camera 42 inch X 36 inch!!!!! i usually reduce then to a 1024 X 768, BUT i save the original if i want to print it. make a really crisp and clean 8 1/2 X 11 or 13 X 19!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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