posted
I met with a new business owner today who was very excited about opening a hair salon. She was bouncing around showing me where the stations would be, color chips for the wall and explaining the vision for her dream shop. I can usually feel the zeal and get excited about designing a sign that fits her expectations, but I just didn't have the heart to tell her I've replaced the same signs for 3 hair salons in that same location in the last two years. It's a horrible location, sparse parking, bad visibility, and wrong demographic. I'm sure she's aware the former tenant didn't make it, but the facts never seem to dampen the inimitable human spirit, so I summoned a little false enthusiasm and tossed out a few pricing options, quietly assuming whatever she chose was wasted money (not exactly an incentive for portfolio work)
So, I guess the question is:
Am I a schmuck for:
1: Not telling her she's in a loser location
2: Telling her she's in a great location
3: Not really caring either way (which possibly means I'm officially an old sign curmudgeon)
posted
Here's my take... never underestimate an entrepeneur! She may have a vision you don't... she should (or obviously) know the history of the location but refuses to believe failure. If she has a plan we don't know about, I hope the best for her. Your sign should be the best work you do for the price & she will take it from there. But you're still a crimudgeion!
-------------------- Debbie Karr Land’s End ARI Artist/Illustrator Posts: 45 | From: Florida/Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
You can't do your job and hers too. Part of starting a business is taking risks. Maybe no one has succeeded there because no one has done it right. There's always a first time for everything.
[ February 03, 2012, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Kelsey Dum ]
-------------------- Kelsey Dum Dum Designs Sherwood, AR 72120 501.765.2166 kelsey@dumdesigns.com Posts: 827 | From: Sherwood, AR | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I've seen the same thing with some resturant and convenience store locations...but by the time I meet the new owner it's way too late for any advice. I just hope they budgeted for a decent sign.
posted
Well this post just goes to show that you care... but where others have failed, she just may make it... Just last week I was over to A&W right beside my shop for my Morning Tea. One of the regulars who is a bit of a Blow hard, a very successful real estate Blow hard was asking me how business was... I responded that I was a s busy as can be... He smiled at me and said "When I saw you move in there, I bet the guys here that you would be closed within a year" I was a little shocked at first, but then it turned to disgust,,, but he said "You certainly proved me wrong... it's just that there has been no business that has lasted in that location" He was right in that fact, but he underestimated my desire.... by the way I moved to that location in 1998...... so you don't need to say anything... you done good Sonny!
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I agree with David. Everybody believes what he wants to believe and has to learn the hard way.
-------------------- dennis kiernan independent artist san francisco, calif, usa Posts: 907 | From: san francisco, ca usa | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
I've been there many times, replacing hairdresser signs maybe every twelve months in same location. While feeling sorry for the new people, it's just not part of my job. I wonder how often does,a,plastic surgeon try to talk prospective clients out of having treatment?
-------------------- Kevin Gaffney Artistik Signs Kinnegad County Westmeath Ireland 044-75187 kevingaffney@eircom.net Posts: 628 | From: Ireland | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
We as sign people have seen alot of stuff. We have seen things open, close, relocate. We have seen and learned who the sucka$$ landlords are and the good ones who takes care of their tenants. I have learned alot about restaurants, salons, car shops...everything.
If someone approaches me and asks my opinion about opening this or that I will tell them straight up no, yes, I wouldnt do it, are you crazy. The ones that kill me the most time after time is the ones that were working at home and doing damn good and then decide to go retail and ruin it all.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
I've found some locations to be loosers, and eventually someone makes it work and moves to a better location. Ever notice how there are blocks or neighborhoods where you've done proposals over the years and seldom or never get the job? I don't even go on estimates in those blocks anymore unless I have some kinda inner twitch pushing my compassion or curiosity.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
This is a perfect opportunity to explore off site signage. A most wonderfully desgined A-Frame might be the trick. Or a projecting sign off her or someone else's corner. Oh, how about a "Glam Goudy" a frame. Here's a new/old one. A sign without any copy. Just a great pictorial/grahic, picture etc. that really sparks the viewer's attention so much, they just gotta see what the fuss is all about.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3816 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
At one time a sign salesmen was telling of a story about making furniture out of old airplane parts. It have been done before with reproduction parts in the 80's and did not do so well. He and his partner were a very successful sign salesman but I never even thought that their idea had any merit. They left their jobs and went for it. I thought they were a little crazy.
Not long after they made a few adjustments came some small success, then a reality TV show, and when that ended, more success.
Sometime we know too much and that gets in the way, I will never doubt vision, talent and enthusiasm again.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Sonny, please don't take me wrong but lets say she was in a dynamite location and you made her one of your dynamite style signs. You get paid top dollar for your services. She opens up but due to do what ever business practices...she fails. Would you feel bad for her or the other one in a bad location and you make the same amount for your signage. Show me the dollar amigo!!! You gave them the same amount of you, the rest is on them...
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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We are always looking for repeat business customers so why not repeat business locations . sounds like that location has been good for you
-------------------- Terry Colley The VintageSign Co 42 barrack hill Romiley Stockport Cheshire, England sk6 3az tel 0161 494 5089 terry@bullandbrush.fsnet.co.uk Posts: 210 | From: England | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I'm sure she's well aware the challenge the location will bring her, and in my experience dealing with new salon owners, the location, while not taken lightly at all, is the least of the worries. There are bigger hoops salons have to jump through and using a location that hopefully still has at least some of the equipment and/or plumbing in place and meets code can ease some of the burden.
Hey, we're in an industry where you dont even need a location, and if it comes down to it, we can get by with nothing more than a few cheap brushes and paint!
The only difference between new business owners and the owners that enjoy longevity is the number of times they've either started over or reinvented themselves.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Many of the best hairdressers work from their homes way out in the burbs... I think the choice of hairdresser is usually by referral and repeat as opposed to walk up or impulse clientelle so location isn't much of an issue unless the neighborhood is scarey.
-------------------- Happy Signing...... Marty
M.F. (Marty) Happy Signmaker Since 1974 Happy Ad Sign & Design Regina SK, Canada S4N 5K4 306-789-9567 happyad@sasktel.net www.happyad.ca
Get Happy & Get Noticed! Posts: 773 | From: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Jan 1999
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As some of us sometime said " a good Sign drag customer in" so this your time think out of the box put something together for you customer and let her do her part. I always belive when you really do a gret sign design amazing thing happen. Good luck with you project Sony!
-------------------- Sal Cabrera Signs By Sal New Freedom , PA
The goal of Yesterday will be the Stating Point of Tomorrow! Posts: 686 | From: New Freedom , PA US | Registered: Nov 1999
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