posted
My town hired me to make a carved gold leafed and vinly lettered sign. This was a replacement sign for one I bid on 2 years before, and lost the bid . They said I was "$300 more than the lowest". It was made from 3/4" hdu, carved more than 1/4" deep. It was attached at the edges to some 1/2" aluminum tubing. At the end of the first winter it split. Ther was no evidence of it being hit or abused. So they call me up to make a replacement, I charged them $200 more than my original quote. I used 1" Hdu glued to 3/4" mdo, with the edges sealed with epoxy. There were 3 lines of text in vinyl. 6 months ago they ask me what type of paint I used so that they could paint over 2 of the lines of text, ( the offices had moved to another building). I went looked and told them it was vinyl lettering and for $35 I could take it off. They said they would do it themselves. 3 months ago, they had succeded to remove 3 letters. Today, I saw they covered It with brown package sealing tape. They said they didn''t want to pay me , they could do it for free. It looks like crap. They just spent about $5000 for a new double sided 4 x 10 carved goldleaf sign for our community center. The new sign, they used the same specs (3/4" hdu with tubing support- overall thickness 2.5") I passed on the Community center sign. Lets see if it will happen again.
The big super market next door, had a 5x10 sign(double sided) carved 2" hdu sign made 1.5 years ago, constructe so there was no central support. Mid winter- at 4 months old- it split. Frost heaved the ground. No evidence of vandalism. The sign company who made it won't fix/ replace it.
quote:Originally posted by DianeBalch: My town hired me to make a carved gold leafed and vinly lettered sign. This was a replacement sign for one I bid on 2 years before, and lost the bid . They said I was "$300 more than the lowest". It was made from 3/4" hdu, carved more than 1/4" deep. It was attached at the edges to some 1/2" aluminum tubing. At the end of the first winter it split. Ther was no evidence of it being hit or abused. So they call me up to make a replacement, I charged them $200 more than my original quote. I used 1" Hdu glued to 3/4" mdo, with the edges sealed with epoxy. There were 3 lines of text in vinyl. 6 months ago they ask me what type of paint I used so that they could paint over 2 of the lines of text, ( the offices had moved to another building). I went looked and told them it was vinyl lettering and for $35 I could take it off. They said they would do it themselves. 3 months ago, they had succeded to remove 3 letters. Today, I saw they covered It with brown package sealing tape. They said they didn''t want to pay me , they could do it for free. It looks like crap now. They just spent about $5000 for a new double sided 4 x 10 carved goldleaf sign for our community center. The new sign, they used the same specs (3/4" hdu with tubing support- overall thickness 2.5") I passed on the Community center sign. Lets see if it will happen again.
The big super market next door, had a 5x10 sign(double sided) carved 2" hdu sign made 1.5 years ago, constructed so there was no central support. Mid winter- at 4 months old- it split. Frost heaved the ground. No evidence of vandalism. The sign company who made it won't fix/ replace it.
Diane
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1695 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Diane, that's exactly why generally don't bid on jobs like that ...... if the specs are for something that I figure will come back to haunt me I'll send them a letter explaining why I'm not bidding & why their specs are flawed. I don't think it has ever done me any good but at least my signs don't puke & die on the first cold night.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
I always back my HDU signs up with MDO, and seal the edges with west systems epoxy thickened with their fairing compound. Then the edges get primed and painted Each time I paint the faces. In 16 years doing it this way... NO failures. If I do need to make a frame, I would still use 1" hdu and attach scraps.
Diane
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1695 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I think the best we can do is take good pictures.
Of poorly done signs, well done signs. Explain in writing what happens.
Let them decide, move on.
Today it is much harder to sell work because of the internet everyone thinks they know of a better deal, but they rarely look at what they are getting till the bought it, so we need to explain and show our product & service harder.
Then top it off with everybody trying to save a buck, forgetting that quality cost more but saves more. ..We must prove that quality will save alot more.
posted
That's a big problem, Craig.......lots of people just don't care about quality work anymore.
In some areas, folks are so accustomed to poor quality work, that they've come to expect it.
I've seen sign companies buy pre-primed MDO, and put vinyl letters directly on it....finished product.
Others, instead of buying or making nice cutout letters, cut them out of cheap styrofoam sheet, throw on a coat of latex.....finished product.
Look how many digital prints are out, just about anywhere in the country, that are done, unlaminated, with cheapo inks, and in 6 months, are all bleached out.....finished product.
Add to that, many "suits" working for municipalities, studied art appreciation in college; and that makes them experts at spec-ing sign projects for their city (yeah, right)....and we've got the makings of a disaster on our hands.
Coupled with the state of the economy, and lots of businesses are trimming costs( many times in the wrong areas), just to stay afloat.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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I like Craig's comments. We need to know our product and project it through common sense language and explanation of what your experience , and past history has shown you. The pictures of faded, or cracked signage with an explanation of why you feel it did, gives an actual visual reference on why your procedures, product, and construction technique will ensure a realistic longevity and good looks. For Dales' comments, the explanation of provided specs, and possible lack of, gives us the opportunity to differentiate ourselves with to the point professional information on how to get a quality product.
Mick
-------------------- Mick Samsel Creative Services Cherokee, IA Posts: 498 | From: Cherokee, Ia USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
In my opinion, I would have taken it off for free. If they spent $5,000 for this sign and for only $35.00 to take this copy off, no harm. Hopefully they will consider you for more Projects.
-------------------- Kevin Betz KB Sign Company 21321 Ulrich Clinton Township, MI 48036 kbsigncompany@att.net Posts: 229 | From: Detroit, MI | Registered: Sep 2003
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“There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.” -John Ruskin
Maybe add this to all your communications with them.
posted
Dale, I offered to take it off the sign before they spent $5000 on a different sign. I have made them carved signs in the past (made 9 carved ones in 1997 for them)and have made them some banners too.
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1695 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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