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You're going to hear many things from those who have changed their paints to other companies while retaining their old school methods. Sign enamel to me has always been neanderthal yet there are many things today which lessen the shine using those methods such as not shaking any paint can enough as well as thinning or reducing instead of adding an oil based flow enhancer. And BTW we all knew they were taking the lead out yet some of us made it a point to buy and collect leaded 1-Shot before that happened..
That's all I have to say
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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Just did some 4x8s coating the boards with OneShot Lettering enamel (black, dark green, fire red). It looks about the same to me.
I have noticed that if the temp is cool with high humidity, I might get some uneven gloss but keeping a fan on them to move the air seems to take care of the issue.
posted
I really depends on what I'm doing. But on just hands lettering and striping, it seems that I have to use two coats to get a really good shine.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3816 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Here's a question that just might determine the source of your problem:
How do you get your paint ready to apply ?
I've seen some who dip their brush directly into the can, pallette it, then add whatever thinner they're using to get the paint on the pallette to a consistancy of their liking. That method practically guarantees a certain amount of inconsistancy, since the ratio of paint to reducer is never exactly the same.
Other folks I've observed pre-mix a quantity of paint with the additives/reducers of their preference, and dip their brushes into that. This method at least assures some consistancy, since they're using a pre-determined mixture.
As Glenn previously mentioned, humidity levels and temperatures can affect the gloss level, as well as the drying position of the work itself ( flat horizontal as opposed to a vertical surface like the side of a vehicle.)
Application method also has some influence. Roll on a thicker coat in the darker colours on a hot, dry day, and you might even get some surface "alligatoring"....that crinkly finish that is indicative that the top most layer of the paint had surface dryed, but the layer just beneath the surface isn't. That one is usually a scrape off/clean-up, and start over situation. Apply a thinner coat next time, and do it in a shaded area, and the "alligatoring " doesn't happen.
As you can see, there are many variables that present themselves, however, I hope some of this helps you out.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Just used a new can of orange and it was like a semi-gloss also used a new can of bright red and it looked fine. Both were double coated and used on the same sign.
-------------------- Eric PA Posts: 149 | From: Intercourse, PA | Registered: Jun 2004
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My golf course signs is about all I still use One Shot on, or did. Two years ago we scuffed and repainted all the borders on 3 different courses. So these signs are out for about 5 and a half months each season. So in less than one year outside, most of them are peeling. I've never seen One Shot do that before. A few other signs I noticed severe fading within 3 years. Even when they took the lead out I was getting better results than that, so it's NOT just the lead.
To make a long story short, what Si said.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Thank you, everyone, for all the input. We paint mostly on aluminum, vertical surfaces, and we use paint thinner. It's generally somewhat humid here in South Arkansas.
We thought the lead issue has affected all brands of paint... Ronan used to be cheap bulletin colors for billboards. Well, we'll get some and see how it goes.
posted
I'd recommend avoiding the paint thinner. It doesn't take much to "burn" the paint and kill the gloss. If you're having problems with the paint flowing, I recommend using something like Penetrol. If you must thin, I'd use some turps sparingly. It won't burn the paint as readily as ordinary paint thinners.
posted
one shot has gotten so bad they have changed the most reconized lable from that beautiful yellow to that plain old black on white.As much as they charge for this stuff they should at least leave the labels alone.Some college grad that thinks he knows everything about paint formulas has really screwed this stuff up and one shot has probably paid him so much money to make this screw up that they don't have the fix it funds.I called this people Oct 3 and told them something is wrong with this paint and the person I spoke with assured me nothing had changed.I guess after over fifty years of using this ONE SHOT stuff,alzheimers has finally kicked in and I don't know the difference in paint or easter egg dye.
-------------------- Bill Wood Bill Wood, Sign Artist 3628 Ogburn Ave., NE Winston-Salem, NC 27105-3752 336-682-5820 Posts: 397 | From: Winston-Salem, NC | Registered: May 2006
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posted
After 20 years of using one shot, I have never added anything to it. Pour a puddle on a 4 x 8 and roll with a 9 inch foam roller until it's "bubble free". Shiny, glossy, and lasts a decade before fading. it did "alligator" once. I thought it was contaminated form a wipe down with alcohol....
That's the way I do it.
-------------------- Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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I'll also recommend to quit using paint thinner. It has always tended to dull O.S., plus most paint thinners have changed over the years. Penetrol works well and is available just about anywhere that sells paint. As far as One Shot, Si summed it up pretty well. Not only has the product become garbage, the attitude of the company has gotten terrible. DO NOT try calling them!!! I can remember when Frank Manning would come to Letterhead meets and the exchange of information was wonderful. Those days are long gone unfortunately. One Shot lost me about ten years ago with the sorry way they handled a problem. I changed over to urethanes. If I had to go back to enamel it would be Ronan.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
quote:Originally posted by Mikes Mischeif: After 20 years of using one shot, I have never added anything to it. Pour a puddle on a 4 x 8 and roll with a 9 inch foam roller until it's "bubble free". Shiny, glossy, and lasts a decade before fading. it did "alligator" once. I thought it was contaminated form a wipe down with alcohol....
posted
I opened a quart of black the other day that I had opened a few weeks ago. I used a small amount last time and had the lid on tightly. I found the color congealing already. I think this constitutes getting ripped off. I hope I remember to get Ronan next time. I have not learned to letter with acrylics.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6717 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
You will love lettering with acrylics. There is minimal smell, no paint skins, much less waste, fewer chemicals (like thinners), and water clean up. And when some of it gets on your hands it doesn't spread everywhere.
quote:Originally posted by W. R. Pickett: You will love lettering with acrylics. There is minimal smell, no paint skins, much less waste, fewer chemicals (like thinners), and water clean up. And when some of it gets on your hands it doesn't spread everywhere.
What brand are you using? Does it require double coating?
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Porter brand house paint. Most colors require more than one coat. [But so does one shot.] The gloss would be best for hand lettering (IMO). When lettering, I slop it on as heavy as possible. It dries in about five minutes. You need some nice 'dedicated' brushes. I bought a bunch of 'brown handle' Macks that I love.
posted
Terry, I jump through hoops to get them. Usually, I buy when I'm in the US anyway but sometimes ( like now) I have to get someone to ship. One store in Columbia SC will ship to my NY address. I've bought it in Bozeman MT, Iron Mtn. MI, Dalton GA, Erie PA & Columbia SC. They have several stores/dealers in lower Michigan but I hate those border crossings there so I've never tried them. I can clear several shipments through Canadian Customs at Sault Ste.Marie or Thousand Islands in 30 minutes .... my best time ever at Windsor or Sarnia was just under 3 hours. With the economy the way it is in the US it's difficult to find a dealer who'll have what we'd want in inventory. Yes, Rhino was AcriShield, but they re-formulated in 2007 I think. It's still nice. You may have to double coat ( or go over a tinted primer) but when I was only getting 18 months out of 1-shot ( 2005), I bailed. I always had to double-coat 1-shot anyway to get a nice smooth finish so there's no extra work that I can see. If you use a paintmask though, with Porter gloss you have to pull the mask off before it dries & bridges. Satin is fine however.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 475 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
For painted signs I currently use Nova for most of it. Nova is acrylic. I also use Porter acrylics. Porter has been bought out by Pittsburgh and easily intermixes with Nova.
Gary Anderson does not do the Rhino paint which was merely his formulas for colors that he specked for Porter. Those colors can be crossed referenced as Pittsburgh colors now.
For the long lasting stuff I roller clear with either a 2 part Urethane clear or Ronan's Aquathane over the acrylics.
I have many signs painted with acrylics that are over 10 years old and some that are 20 plus. I agree with Billy Pickett on those Mack brushes and I have also found many taklon or golden taklon brushes that work well with acrylics.
I have found the flat sheen works best under clears and also works well on awnings and under vinyl graphics. For a real high gloss I'd go with the 2 part urethane. For a semi-gloss I'd topcoat with Aquathane.
I use HOK lettering and striping urethane or Dupont's Hot Hues Pinstripe EFX for my vehicle striping and lettering. For larger lettering on vehicles I'll add a few drops of Matthew's Brush and Roll Additive. I use the same brushes for the urethanes that I's use with 1 Shot.
I am trying to use up my supply of 1 Shot for interior stuff, toys and other projects that don't have to go outside and face the elements. I thin only when necessary with pure Turpentine.
Flattening paint sheen could be, as has been mentioned, by either not thoroughly mixing the paint or by over thinning. Also the reps like Tramp Warner will tell you that the 1 Shot folks do not recommend mineral spirits. I think if you get the proper mixture in a cup, instead of palleting, you may eliminate some problems. I prefer metal, glass or plastic medicine cups over Dixie cups. I think Dixie cups are fine until the paint sits in there too long, because the glue that holds the bottom of the cup onto the sides could integrate into the paint, but that is just my theory. I still use them from time to time, but I don't let the paint sit in them for any longer time than when I am going to use them. In other words, if the paint sits in them overnight, and you cut the skin and try to use the remainder, you might experience some flattening.
It used to p*** me off that I had to branch out into so many different paint technologies to get the best results when at one time the only paint I used was 1 Shot. But Illinois' climate extremes puts demands on paints that 1 Shot could no longer handle.
I've got to tell you I really enjoy that Nova.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
You guys need to try this thinner #TE3000.It is a slow thinner that makes brush strokes disapear. I've been using this for years and it is awesome. You can buy it from www.candocinks.com/ in gallons.After a sign has been lettered for months you can...with little effort, remove letters with this thinner.Try it,you'll be glad you did.
-------------------- Bill Wood Bill Wood, Sign Artist 3628 Ogburn Ave., NE Winston-Salem, NC 27105-3752 336-682-5820 Posts: 397 | From: Winston-Salem, NC | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I just got in a can of One Shot hardener. Figured that was the only way I could use up this One Shot I have sitting around. I stuck a popsicle stick in to add a few drops to a small amount of One Shot. I pulled out the stick and got a long string of hardener about the consistency of honey. Midwest dates their products when they arrive and this one was received at Midwest last August. I wonder how long it sat in stock at the One Shot warehouse. I've had their hardener last over a year before getting thick.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
We still use 1-Shot enamel for all of our smalts applications along with Smith's Cream. We stock Smith's Cream & smalts for the trade since it is difficult to find. Smalted signs eliminate one of the finishing coats we would normally apply with latex, so we save a little on labor, but have the additional cost of the smalts. However, the end result is one your client will be happy they paid for!
All other finishing paints are Porter, which is now PPG. Yes, it takes up to three coats to finish an HDU sign, but it dries much quicker and will not affect your lungs as much as the enamels. Gary Anderson used Porter brand with his own formulas for colors. He may even share them with you, as he did with us, since he is no longer providing that service. Porter is easy to find here in the Midwest!
I haven't used too much Sherwin-Williams, but I know Peachtree City Foamcraft finishes their monuments with it.
-------------------- Keith Jenicek Artisan Signs St. Louis, MO
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