posted
Just wondering what the common consensus is on corrugated trailers?
I've got to do a bid on 48 footers, that have small (about 3/4) inch ribs, about every 4 inches, running horizontally, the length of the trailer.The letters are one color, about 4 feet tall, upper case block style, and cover pretty much the whole length.
The trailers are just being painted white, so should give a good surface.
Just curious as to how you would do them, and what you'd charge? I've done these before, but it was many moons ago. Just wondering if there's any new 'tricks'?
The last ones we did were liquid masked, cut and sprayed with acrylic enamel. Worked good, but a big mess and hassle.
Thanks for the input.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
i think you got the best method there. vinyl would be a pita. did this all with vinyl...never again!!! (sarasota 1994)note: THEIR DESIGN!!!
[ October 22, 2011, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
For what it's worth, and from the perspective of an old fart.
That sounds like an easy job done in vinyl.
Allow for the corrugations (as in "stretch them vertically") when laying out and cutting the letters.
Bottom hinge the lettering and slit between letters.
Lay down each letter or a couple at a time. If you are nervous, or it is windy, use Rapid Tac.
Sounds like pretty easy money to me. Especially if it is a fleet job.
(edited to add) I am kinda out of the loop as far as material costs are, but I would think something like you describe should be quite profitable at about $800 per trailer. If you are hungry maybe $500-600 would still keep the cash flowing.
[ October 22, 2011, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
dave what did i just say??? sounded like it would be easy....untill you do one on a ladder.....like i said NEVER AGAIN!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Sorry, Dave, but I've got to go with Joe on this one. There's no way I'd even try vinyl on these things.
The ribs on these trailers are about half as far apart as those in the picture Joe posted, and the lettering is much larger. The main letters are about 4 feet tall.
The more I've thought and prayed about this job, even though it would be good money, the more I've come to the conclusion that I should pass on it.
Even though I believe I've made some good strides toward recovery after my stroke last winter, I still have some balance issues(I've had to put my ballet lessons on hold), and a lack of proper strength in my right arm.
Aside from probably not being able to maneuver a spray gun around properly yet (I haven't tried it), it'd be really stupid to be up on scaffolding or pick boards. That'd be all I'd need, to fall and break my fool head........or worse.
posted
you n me in same physical condition. i got muscle atrophy in my right forarm, no grip in that hand either. after the open heart surgery in dec, i seem to have the same balance problems. i belive its some of the drugs iam taking that messes with my balance. ace inhibitor(bp meds)beta blockers(regulate heart rate) i think are the problem.
[ October 23, 2011, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I told my son, several months ago, that maybe I should change the name of my shop to "Wobbly Signs" as I'd been jokingly referring to myself as "The Wobbler". But people might take it wrong, so I guess I'll just let well enough alone.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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I hope both you and Joe will get through them soon.
I haven't had any serious health issues other than getting older.
I agree, I wouldn't be attempting that job these days..I guess I was still thinking like I was in my 50's!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Aside from the above mentioned health issues, I will present my thoughts.
Having not seen the copy or amount of letters, and aside from some boring work, if you had a good helper and proper equipment, this could make some money, if bid well. Also helpful if you had a well lit work space and not out in some cold parking lot.
Were I to do this, it would be a 48" tall pounce pattern and hand lettering. I would cut in with a 2" flat and fill in with a roller. I cut my teeth doing this type of thing.
-------------------- Curt Stenz Graphics 700 Squirrel Lane Marathon, WI 54448 Posts: 590 | From: Marathon, WI 54448 | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Thanks Curt, and this would've been my first and oldest way of doing it too.
But what do we have to use, that's worth a crap, paint-wise? Years ago, I wouldn't have had any reservations about using our sign paints. Not today.
That's why we used the acrylic enamel, even 15 years ago......so it would hold up. With the severe treatment most semi trailers get, the lettering enamels we have today would be lucky to last a year.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Liquid mask all the way. Use wide masking tape to section off the area to be lettered. Roll on an extra heavy coat of liquid mask. Pounce your pattern, cut, spray with catalysed acryclic enamel, peel mask when dry. Fastest, cleanest, easiest way. Of course, this has to be done inside. I'm 66 with a bad hip.....I'd do just like you are doing and pass.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
I would use liquid mask, also. I've done these all three ways: hand lettered, mask & spray, and vinyl. I think you can make money all three ways, unless you have to do a lot of double-coating with lettering enamel. But I can pull a knife blade through Gripmask far quicker than pulling a lettering brush. Of course, I never was a superfast sign painter. Also, you can roll the mask on from the ground after you tape off the perimeter with two-inch tape. So you don't need to set up scaffolding till you're ready to pounce. Hang some masking paper along the bottom to keep the liquid mess off the rest of the trailer and the wheels. Use a thick nap roller on the end of extension handle and work out of a five-gallon bucket. Use a fully loaded roller and don't put it on light. As soon as you're done coating out the side, go back and put on a second coat. If it's on thick it peels beautifully when you're done. If you ever put it on too thin you will have a painful memory that you will never forget.
I know vinyl guys who could knock this out quick, but sprayed-on polyurethane enamel will outlast vinyl or lettering enamels.
Brad in Kansas City
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Here's a picture of the trailer (being repainted). The owner of the truck shop called me last nite and begged me to reconsider. He can't find anyone else who letters anymore, anywhere around.
He also said the company had added some more copy (didn't say how much). In the lettering on the picture, you can just make out the corrugations. They appear to be 3-4 inches apart.
What do you think would be a good price? Doesn't appear to be anything on the back.
posted
looks to be a 7 foot high X 40-45 foot long trailer nothing like usin the old sq ft method. 7 X 45= 315 sq ft X $10 a sq ft = $3150 PER SIDE so $6300 would a STARTING NUMBER!!!!if you thinks its worth $15 a sq ft take 1/2 of the $6300, $3150, add that to $6300 = $9450.00. if you think its worth $20 a sq ft double the $6300 = $12,600. REMEMBER they say they cant find anyone else that paints. this is an oyster!!!! say you get the job for $9450. you could hire couple $5.00 an hour kids from the local trade school AUTOMOTIVE PAINT SHOP, to help you lay it out and paint it. AND GET A 1/2 UP FRONT DEPOSIT)))))) this way if they dont like the price and decide not to pay you still got SOME OF THEIR MONEY.
[ November 02, 2011, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
If this trailer is what I think it is, that being a washboard Corrogation effect, then it's a bloody pain in the rear with whatever method you use, I've done hundreds of trailers in my days, and the ones that look like yours are just not worth it, unless you get the big bucks... Good luck with your decision, which seems you've already have come to.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Looking at this job, as it sits with no extra copy, using the liquid mask method, one man could do this in an eight hour day. That is providing the pattern was already done.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
Here is the trailer, blasted, bare and ready to paint. The ribs are 2" apart.....fun,fun,fun...
What are youall talking about "the big bucks"?
I think OP has been in too many "meds". I don't mind making a buck on this job, if I do decide to try it, but this is a long-time customer, ans I'm not into rape.
I've got a plan...possibly. I can do the layout, and patterns, slap on the liquid mask, cut it out, and then have him spray the letters. I can do the mask left-handed ( not like I can mess it up).
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
dale, i been chaging $10 sq ft for stuff like this for many years. now that NOBODY ELSE can do it, i dont see $15 sq ft as rape. in this day when i pay now for a quart of paint that 10 years ago i could get a gallon of the same paint, a gallon of gas was below $1.00 and now is a steal at $3.30 a gal....no way are you raping anyone by charging for a pain in the ass job, nobody else can do or wants.....even if you charged them $5 a sq ft which i wouldnt because of the ribs, and the time its gona take to do this job properly, your at $3150.00 for both sides. or at $7.50 a sq ft which would be at $4725.00. considering materials and time.......and this is a good job for your christmas shopping bonus)))))) just to remind you: gallon 1 shot is now $80 or more. 3m 1" masking tape, $5 a roll.
[ November 02, 2011, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Doing this by hand using the traditional Method of sign Painting will be 3 to 4 times longer than a flat trailer. So if you were to charge 800 bux for flat, then..... Maybe using Conform Vinyl and heat, it may be worth to try doing one letter and see how it goes.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I figured 16 hours from coat-out to spray, including pattern time, based on the picture. More copy would add more time, but this is not a difficult job for cut-and-spray. Five gallons Gripmask, one gallon paint, plus hardener. Hand lettering would be slow and painful, like Si said. I've done a number of these in the past using liquid mask, from simple Wortz Cracker logos to heavily painted Mayflower trailers which took seven gallons of acrylic enamel.
One really nice thing about knifing Gripmask is that you can use an aluminum yard stick for straight lines. I also had large homemade triangles that I used. Pulling a diagonal line on an upper case 'A' with a soft fitch can be frustrating on corrugation, but not so with a knife and a straightedge. And curves are not that bad if your pattern is accurate. Just trust your lines. The worst part is knifing over a rivet, but it's still easier than doing it with a fitch. Try not to overcut at square corners (you can get tiny bleeds), and if you cut away too much on a letter, you will have to patch it with masking tape, as Gripmask doesn't want to re-adhere once you've pulled it away from the metal. If you cut with very little pressure, false cuts don't show too bad.
Brad
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Dale, This looks like a job site trailer, in which case would it be possible to use panels, that could lettered in your shop however you wish to do them.
Usually site trailers are not out on the road, going thru truck washes (the real culprit to fading and chalking) and just sit for several months before being moved. Have you explored that option?
-------------------- Curt Stenz Graphics 700 Squirrel Lane Marathon, WI 54448 Posts: 590 | From: Marathon, WI 54448 | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
to panel it.........cost for sheets of aluminum would be astronomical say its 7 ft x 40 you would need 10- 4 X 8 sheets of .032 or .040 if stood up. 8 sheets per side if laid sideways. 16-20 sheets of aluminum @ $80 a sheet + pop rivets and installation.... your mow well over $ 1000 bucks, before you even get it lettered.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
You've got it pretty close, Joe; I had figured somewhere in the 3000-3500 dollar range. And I think we're going to go with the liquid mask.
I talked to the shop owner, and he told me he'd spray the enamel, after it's cut and ready. So that's one monkey off my back. He's also going to furnish the paint.
Before it was sandblasted, the old lettering was hand-done, and bumpy along the edges. Even with a 'foamy' or a fitch, it's hard to keep lines straight, going over those bumps; and like Brad said, using a straight edge, it can be done pretty neat.
Well, the ball's in their court now. I'm giving them the bid today, and if they want to go with it, we'll give it a shot. If not, that's OK too. It's more work than I feel really comfortable with yet, but like Joe said, it'll make a nice Christmas bonus.
Thanks for all the good discussion, guys! It's nice talking about a real sign job, again.....
posted
$3500 and them supplying the paint, doing it with liquid mask, you'll be just fine. If you get them to peel it, you'll be even better off. Just do like Brad said and roll that stuff on THICK. Those big letters, using an aluminum straight edge will cut really fast!
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Dale, in the future you could always see about subbing this out to someone here on the b-board. I have a few friends here who would travel to take a job like that. That way you keep the customer happy, get the money off the top and make more doing the tasks you can still do while you recover.
May you have a speedy, complete recovery.
-------------------- Rick Heller Ohio Technical College 1374 E. 51st Street Cleveland, OH 44103 IOAFS Posts: 210 | From: Cleveland, OH | Registered: Nov 2001
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