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Does how many years we've hand painted signs or does the advanced technology in computer graphics play a big roll higher prices we get for our work.I've been hand lettering signs over 50 years and hardley anyone wants painted signs and if for some reason they find out you can hand letter they act like it's a prehistoric talent.I could never get a lot of money for painted signs then and the same goes today...vinyl,no problem.I'm still trying to understand this.Is this something that exists only in my area or could this be a wide spread thing?
-------------------- Bill Wood Bill Wood, Sign Artist 3628 Ogburn Ave., NE Winston-Salem, NC 27105-3752 336-682-5820 Posts: 397 | From: Winston-Salem, NC | Registered: May 2006
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Around here, I watched the price on most painted work get cut roughly in half when vinyl took over. This went for magnetics, trucks, banners and signs. I also want to stress this ( price reduction) was not from the old established shops.
I'm going to watch this one closely.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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Same here. Not only is the craft not wanted there is abolutely no market for it any longer. If you live in an area where your still hand carving and doing hand painting and your making good money, awesome. That is no longer happening in our area and it is surely nothing I would want to get back into.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
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A few minutes ago I hand lettered the tail gate of a classic Chevrolet pickup. It was for an old friend of over 40 years. He loved the job and promised to spread the word among his restorer buddies, but that is just about all the hand lettering I do these days.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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As you have seen my videos, I do a lots of paint work. But paint work is only about 25% of my work load. Right now I'm doing a bit on doing some lettering on these water tanks. Not the kinda that are in the air, they look more like truck trailers. Because of the sides, somewhat ribbed, and the fact that the layout is very simple, It seems that i could do the job in paint for the same price as high performance vinyl. Vinyl, up here that is, has gotten very expensive.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3816 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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Oh, still talking here, it also seems that my customers, who I do paint work for , don't understand that I also do vinyl, etc. and the vinly customers are surprized that I do paint work. When my paint customers see my plotter, they are amazed that i have it.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3816 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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50% of my work is a must for hand lettering. Also I do 95% of my work hand lettering, mainly I only have a cheap Chinese cutter hardly know what I'm doing on the software or CorelDraw X3 and don't even know how to transfer what I design in that to the cutter even if it can lol
But since 1985 I've seen the prices drop like a rock in water here in Orlando. After getting over bumming me out on that. .. I started to look alot harder on ways to hand letter more like window splash, rough surfaces, old looking signs, pinstriping, signs that can last longer then vinyl is even possible to sell since Florida sun is brutal on vinyl, in fact city is now requesting any murals to be painted not digital if outside. ...Ever since I've been alot happier and do not worry about the vinyl or pricing as much, yes I do wish I could get the price I really need to profit & advance better, but when you bid a 4x8 job at any price you think you can make something and pay a bill and... LOSE TO $75 ...I've really learned to look in other areas.
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99% of my work is hand done. I just painted 109 windshields for a big Chevy store in 4 hours. At $12 each, that works out to be $327 per hour. On Friday, I painted two sets of showroom windows for a Ford store. $1600 for five hours or $320 per hour. On big windows the fluorescent paints simply burst out so much brighter than anything a digital print can give, plus the square footage makes doing it by hand very affordable. We all think that hand work is dead and yet I am here to prove that it is clearly not. There are so few left who can swing the rollers at big scale anymore and handlettering is a lost art? The biggest reason is not that the skills have been lost, but that the skill in selling the work has become so much more difficult. Gatekeepers, middle management, the self importance of the top dogs who buy and the having to actually go out there and sell make this work very full of rejection, compared to just sitting around and waiting for the phone to ring in the comforts of your shop, next to that $10,000 cutter.
In almost every city I go see, I find some splash art. I have met many of you here and many more who never heard of Letterville. I know there is plenty of work out there for many more of us who can still bang out handwork, but the key is that we have to go out there and hustle it. Most everyone I know who still splashes is now over 55 years old. Do they no longer teach it at art schools? They never did. Most signmakers want to sit in front of that computer screen and watch some cutter do all the work and afterall, it is ultra tight work.
Wanna do more hand lettering? All you have to do is go sell it. If we could just get the fastfooders to go for it again, we all would make plenty. (Dennys and IHOP are now playing with it again...email me and I can send you pics of what they are doing) I rely on the car dogs, but the real money is in the chains. I am talking giant money. I know it well as I have seen spurts ever since the early 90s. $3000 a day, door to door is not a bad wage for running around the country and splashing up some fastfooders. We just need to focus together and go after the chains....and of course, we have to know how to hand letter and simply show up when we agree.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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Don't get to do much hand lettering, but do an occasional block wall or big grand opening signs on car dealer window. and I do letter lots of footballs and basketball for awards at local schools. I do not make a ton of money on this stuff, just my regular shop rate.
A year or so ago I saw a box truck that I lettered when I first started. They probably replaced the truck part several times but the orange and blue lettering ( although as ugly as when I did it! ) still looked fresh. This was done about 28 years ago.
-------------------- Tom Rose 1938 Model Sign Dude T.Rose Signs Whitehall,PA Posts: 327 | From: Whitehall,PA,USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Life is surely what you make of it as well as your choice to do what it is you've put all your time into. In all the years I've done paint work without ever doing vinyl, I've never been at a loss and the money has always flowed, maybe that's because what I've done was simply for the money and have always gone where the money is.
BTW, Keith Knecht passed on around midnight..
R.I.P. my friend
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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Here is a person who is making a good living at hand painting and lettering. http://www.nutmeggerworkshop.com/ This is the direction I am moving toward, now that my skills at hand lettering seem to be marginalized by technology. Elevate it to a "lost art" craft that is sought after. "To offer the very best in period sign art reproductions and original designs. Interior vintage sign art for home and business decor." Window splashes and walls are a good source of income too.
-------------------- Craig Shaw Shaw Signs & Designs 11028 Green Valley Rd. Sebastopol, CA 95472 Posts: 24 | From: Sebastopol,CA | Registered: Aug 1999
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iam having a resurgence to hand lettering. i belong to a local car club. lot of pre 70's-80's autos. putin "stickers" on anything that is older then 70's is a total NO-NO!!! and iam not afraid to tell them so. in the car club we got a guy with a 1952 ford panel truck. really sweet ride. outside its all 1950's, underneath its all disc brakes, computer controlled motor and awsome suspension. the only thing is....ON THE PANELS on each side.he got STICKERS!!!!! really looks outa place. i just got another retro redo for 4- 2' X 6' 1950's local beer brewery that has long been outa business. the originals was hand painted on masonite. iam going to redo em from pictures of the originals. iam putting them on max metal so they will last longer. here is 3 little jobs i did in paint. the tire cover is my design the guy in the toilet was "provided art." the flying eyeball was for my eye doctor who flys is own plane, as a gift. i gave him all the info on von dutch.
[ August 30, 2011, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Why buy something painted when vinyl outlasts the paints available now? It's pure economics . . . paint is NOT a value thing when held next to vinyl. But try to find anyone doing restoration work that wants vinyl . . .
BUT . . . and that's a big but . . . now a sign painter is a commodity and should price himself or herself much higher since a rarity of a commodity is exactly how prices rise.
It was bound to happen at some point . . . and nostalgia is ALWAYS good for the free markets when pricing a skill. Anyone know what a good tool and die maker makes today? A lot more than 35-40 years ago when they were a dime a dozen. (Though still an amazing skill...)
If you question whether that's possible or not - that sign painters might treat their skills as a commodity, consider this . . . how many movies or documentaries about sign painters have you seen prior to today?
Few, if any . . .
But . . . if the interest of a documentarian about the rare animal called 'the sign painter' is worth doing a film on, then we're damned close to that day of higher prices and nostalgia. Act and price accordingly . . .
posted
Supply and demand. Now why don't the sign painters realize that they are a rare commodity and naturally should charge a premium for their work? I did some work for a couple of broadway shows that needed signs that looked like they were done in the 40's. They said it was almost impossible to find an old sign painter and were willing to pay anything. I even got a couple of free tickets. (Little Shop of Horrors and Billy Elliott) Bill
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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My point exactly, Bill . . . While it might not be an everyday need - or a good value for the short life of paint today - it is certainly a skill that would be needed at some point by someone just like you experienced with the theater work . . .
What a dealio, eh?
Man survives by adaptation. Once you observe - then live - that philosophy, life becomes exponentially simpler.
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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It's a sad commentary to our world today. The emphasis is no longer on quality, or the 'craftsmanship" aspect of our profession.
I still try to do as much hand painting as possible. I usually clearcoat my work, though, to make up for the poor quality of our sign paints. It's much more rewarding to me, than any vinyl work....and since my stroke, it provides me with 'therapy'....getting my arm and hand strength back online.
I like the retro-looking stuff, and the prospect of having customers pay a premium price for "pre-screwed-up" work.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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I honestly believe that most clients don't care about the method or medium and long as they get their sign done on time and at the "right" price. So, if you can paint a sign within the client's parameters, do it.
On the other hand, I think about learning to hand-paint every time I make a vinyl sign because of the waste it generates. And this is where I think and believe that "sign painters" can satisfy the environmentally friendly "green" niche.
With the right paints and substrates, I feel a sign painter can market himself as an environmentally friendly alternative to the quickie-sticky shops - and be able to charge a premium for it.
I just wish I had the skills to try.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yesterday, I got a job doing some lettering. It's the water tanks I mentioned earlier. I put in two bids. One with paint and one with vinyl. The paint was more expensive,,,,the guy wanted,,,,"Paint!" (Cheers and the sounds of a brass band coming from the bachground) Vinyl gonna stay home that day.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3816 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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Hand painted signs and murals are 95% of my business. People come to me because I still do it by hand. I don't try to compete with the vinyl or digital market nor would I want to. I enjoy the fact that I don't have to put big money out on printers /supplies and software and all the headaches that come with (been there...done that) . There's something satisfying and rewarding doing things by hand. My clients know they'll be paying more, but like the fact they have something special. I'm not saying the digital world is a bad thing, it's just not for me.
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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But bruce, what shall it gain a man if he, gain the whole world and lose his own soul,
Wallet don't beat Soul.
just my two cents. from a lefty sign painter and since left handed people are the only ones in their right minds.............. ............ ........ ... ... .. .. .. .. .. . . . . I am right
-------------------- Miles Cullinane, Cork, Ireland.
From the sometimes sunny south of Ireland, Posts: 913 | From: Cork, Ireland | Registered: Jul 1999
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I agree with Pickett - "Cranking out STICKERS on a machine may be good for your pocket book, but painting with a brush is good for your soul."
Plus getting the most out of the simplest materials, and working as much as possible with natural materials.
-------------------- dennis kiernan independent artist san francisco, calif, usa Posts: 907 | From: san francisco, ca usa | Registered: Feb 2010
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