posted
I don't like a dash between the area code and the phone number. I don't mind the dash between the prefix and phone number. I call it sign junk. I don't want to see that on signs anymore. If I see that on any sign, I'm gonna remove it! "The hen has crowed!"
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Until about 10 or 15 years ago, area code numbers weren't nearly so important. However, since the addition of cell phones, those area codes have often shrunk in geographic area to reflect to total number of phones in that area. Also, the population is now far more mobile, and it's not as uncommon as it used to be for someone to be in as many as 4 different area codes in a single business day.
In this area, the area code portion of a phone uumber was differentiated by being places within brackets, Example: (519) 439-1881
Recently, I've seen another treatment where the 3-digit area code was turned 90 degrees and reduced in size to the same x-height as the following numbers.
Realtor signs around here have become an information overload nightmare, with them wanting not only a business phone number and home number, but often a fax number, pager number, website, plus a text message number.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
I really like the area code to be a bit smaller with a vertical line or simply shape under it. Now that makes me smile.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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I usually reduce the area code and put a line on the top and bottom the first 3 numbers. Kind of like this except solid, don't know how to type it on the keyboard. and instead of a dash I use a period
--- 999 255.5555 ---
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I normally decrease the weight or height mostly with added line(s) or go vertical all depends on room available ..I like the 7 numbers to be readable and remembered, the area code is just a reference to me.
So dashes between the area code and 7 digits are rare. guess that means I'm safe.
I've tried to use dots instead of dashes on signs but most times have had to put in a dash instead, so now I just stick with dashes to separate the 3 digits from 4 digits.
posted
Oh yeah, that's the other thing I detest, a dash in the center of the 7. I usually point that out to people who write 7's like that. To me, it makes me think that they think they are special or better than the rest of us who write 7's normally. Makes me want to stomp on their right big toe really hard.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Personally I can never remember getting a phone number off a business sign...I'm too busy driving...a reality site sign sure...but a main ID sign in front of a business...never...I usually try to get people to leave it off...I'm not very successful.
posted
The car dogs all want their phone number and web address on their window signs. i try to either parenthesis the area code or do the top and bottom line. I sign my name in 1/4" tall white lettering down at the bottom right, as discreetly as possible, knowing the guy who wants the next one might actually look at my name and remember who to call. I still get some people who drive by, see a car, miss the 16" tall phone number on the sign and call me up from my little miniscule number and ask me about that car out on the corner, like I would know how many miles are on it or if it has a 4.7 liter V6. I generally tell them that it does and that it is now being offered for thousands of dollars off. I never had any problem with that approach. Then I ask them if they need their winders painted.
Drive-bys do not write down the phone number or web address, nor are they reading the paper or watching TV as they drive by. They read the main message (such as GIANT SALE!) and think that they maybe they should stop in there and look at a car. Now convincing the car dogs to go along with that is like me convincing myself to try brocoli on my peanut butter sandwich, instead of stawberry jam. Watermelon maybe, but brocloi?
I do not mind the phone number area code thingie so much as when someone wants their webaddress up there and still think it has to be ALL SMALL CASE or that they need http:///www. The world is full of bozos and we all just have to ride the bus with them. Too bad so many of them are smart enough to be such tightwads.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
My boss always made us put periods instead of dashes. I always thought it looked serial number instead of a phone number.
-------------------- Charles Borges de Oliveira Borges Lettering & Design Snohomish WA Posts: 352 | From: Snohomish WA | Registered: Mar 2003
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Depending on client preference I'll use dashes or periods... I feel both breaks in the numbers should be the consistent to tie the entire series of numbers together as a unit that 'flows' and inconsistent 'pauses' don't help keep the number unified. Area codes are more more important than ever in everyday business and personal communication so it's rare not to see an area code on any advertising. I've never liked brackets for the area code, though.
-------------------- Happy Signing...... Marty
M.F. (Marty) Happy Signmaker Since 1974 Happy Ad Sign & Design Regina SK, Canada S4N 5K4 306-789-9567 happyad@sasktel.net www.happyad.ca
Get Happy & Get Noticed! Posts: 773 | From: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
If phone numbers are so important,why doesn't Mcdonalds put phone numbers on their big signs.How many numbers have you got off vehicles? Probably none.Even if someone living in the same town you are and you ask for their number they always give you the area code first as if you didn't know it.
-------------------- Bill Wood Bill Wood, Sign Artist 3628 Ogburn Ave., NE Winston-Salem, NC 27105-3752 336-682-5820 Posts: 397 | From: Winston-Salem, NC | Registered: May 2006
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I do all dots in this dotcom era we live in... our big toes may be in danger... but hell yeah us dotted phone number people ARE special... we have numbers that buck the system, AND flow nice... what more could you want
posted
I don't understand the concerns about the "presentation" of a stupid phone number...
A telephone number is just that...a series of numbers. Fancy it up with strange and illegible letterstyles, THAT is silly.
But whether you prefer parentheses, hyphens, or periods is kind of a sillier discussion to me. Do it the way the customer prefers.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I do work for an ad agency and they insist on dots- absolutely NO dashes or they freak out-- they also don't like "www" before a web address in any of their ads...
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1735 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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Michael...I understand the customer's likes and wishes.
I also have come across websites that don't use www as part of their web address.
And what used to be standard HTTP is now expanded to HTTP1 and HTTP2 with no WWW involved.
If the customer doesn't want WWW included, do it their way. If it doesn't work it is THEIR fault!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I think we shd all go back to the days when it was, "Operator, I want to place a call to St. Louis. Mo. Parkview 9 double-oh 2.
-------------------- dennis kiernan independent artist san francisco, calif, usa Posts: 907 | From: san francisco, ca usa | Registered: Feb 2010
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I will usually do the area code in a lighter stroke version of the type style. I'm not fond of dashes between the area code and number and usually use a slash or parenthesis. I often use a dot rather than a dash in the body of the phone number.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Phone numbers on 'primary' signs are always low class. If the sign is designed effectively, a phone number is not necessary. And letting a no nothing client dictate sign design is the path to mediocrity.
posted
IHA-TET-HIS! It takes me forever to figure out which buttons to push and then I still get misdialed numbers. Then again I'm likely the only person left in life who hasn't texted.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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NOT ALONE Hmmmmm, lets seeeee.... 6....6....8....-...2....5....0....6....3 YEAH! Wait, there are too many numbers?
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Kelly and Don...gimme a break, I am 67 years old and even I know how to text!!!
My name is Dave...That would be... one hit on 3, one hit on 2, three hits on 8 and two hits on 3!!! Easy...
Regarding Mr. Pickett's thought...I always gave the customer what they wanted. I figured, since I was in business to make money, the guy who signed the bottom right of the cheque was the guy who was correct.
Even though I am now happily retired, thanks to all the folks who signed those cheques, I still believe in that concept.
(edited for grammar and spelling)
[ August 22, 2011, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I am another that reduces the size of the area code. But I prefer a forward slash between the numbers. If they insist on a full size area code number, then I will do the slash there too or use dots (or diamonds or something) between the numbers. I find that when I write out phone numbers on paper, I use the slashes between the numbers. i.e. 222/555/9999
-------------------- Dana Blair Blair Signs Wooster, OH www.blairsigns.com
If sign makers go on strike, is there anything written on their picket signs? Posts: 835 | From: Wooster, OH, USA | Registered: Jul 1999
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When I have to scribble out a number I sometimes just leave a space...
123 456 7890
or dashes..
123-456-7890
never have used anything else.
If you want confusing numbers...live in Mexico for a while...They do things really strange to we Americans and Canadians...
Try figuring out and remembering...
5553 51 27 84
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I'm on our town's theater board. It's an old movie theater with a full stage. One of the back drops is a very old, very large canvass banner that has a nice scene painted in the middle. Surrounding the painting are various ads from local businesses. One of the ads has the phone number. 64 That's it, just 64. Those were the days.
I'm another anti-texter. I embrace technology in most areas, but texting? Never did like it. I tried it once. What a pain in the butt. I can tell the person in 1/10th the time by talking. If they are somewhere where they can't talk? Voice mail works just fine for me. Two things bug me the most about texting. One is that it costs the phone companies almost nothing to send a text. They make an absolute fortune on text plans. Second, this texting revolution is having a negative effect. People are losing their communication skills. They are forgetting how to listen. And it's not helping the younger kids in spelling. You texters know what I mean. Pressing 9 buttons for a five letter word? I can do without it.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I prefer the bottom method ... gives me more room for the main part of the phone number ... except that I live on a state border with 2 area codes, so sometimes the customer needs to make the area code as big as rest of numbers to avoid confusion, so I can't always make this work.
and btw, I HATE hyphens.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I have been wanting to pontificate about proper punctuation for a long time, but felt it would be a subject of little interest. I see I'm wrong. Phone number punctuation is something some of us feel strongly about. I have my peeves and favorites, too. It's true that punctuation is an area where some of us feel free to use our artistic licenses—we're not typographers, after all. We're artists. We’re “creatives,” as one ad agency I know likes to put it. We break rules sometimes for effect and do what we want. Still, it's good to know punctuation rules even when we break them.
First of all, a technicality: phone numbers in the US are typically written with hyphens rather than dashes. Hyphens are short dashes (or long periods) and are used for words that are split on two lines, and for phone numbers, or more correctly, numbers that are not in a series. Numbers in a series, as in the phrase “Rooms 210–215” require a true dash rather than a hyphen, specifically, an ‘en dash.’ An ‘en dash’ is considerably longer than a hyphen. Even longer is an ‘em dash,’ which has several other uses.
Hyphens in phone numbers do have their down side. They are sometimes difficult to space with certain numbers, like sevens. A bullet or a dot is a little easier, and allows for tighter phone numbers, too.
My peeve regarding the hyphen is not so much that it is used, but that its placement is not understood. Most software, by default, places it just below vertical center in a phone number.
This is very unsightly. Worse, it looks correct to many people because it has become so common. In reality, this placement is the default lower case position. The appropriate location for a hyphen used with capitals or numbers is the vertical midpoint of the letter or number. —see Finer Points in the Spacing and Arrangement of Type, by Geoffrey Dowding, an instructional for typesetters.
I ungroup my phone numbers and center the hyphens with a zero or some other round number. It’s true that it takes a couple of extra steps to tweak a phone number this way. It's certainly not for a knock-out artist. But it is, I believe, a mark of good craftsmanship.
The use of dots in phone numbers has been in use in Europe for a long time. It has been in use more and more in the US. Some think it's way cool, some think it's pretentious. I don't mind it, though I don't volunteer it much. It still looks like a phone number and that's what counts. In UK sometimes phone numbers are written without any punctuation at all, like this: 020 7123 1234. And I've also seen the first three digits, their area code, with parentheses, like this: (020) 7123 1234. The first example looks like some secret agent cipher to me, but I guess I'm just used to punctuation of some sort in a phone number.
If you don't like hyphens, periods or parentheses, there is a ‘middle dot’ you can get to by typing ALT+0183 on a PC keyboard.
Slashes have been mentioned. A solidus is similar, but leans to the right more. It's mostly used in fractions. By the way, a backslash leans to the left, like a reverse solidus. You could get wild with asterisks or stars or even flowers. A romantic phone number could have hearts.
I worked as an apprentice at a shop called Super Signs that had a logo image similar to this:
So it was common for us to put little diamonds in the phone numbers, a practice I continued out of habit for some years after I went out on my own.
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Brad...it is simply amazing that there is someone who knows this much about what to do with spaces between numbers...unlike Raymond I cant tell you the number of nights I have laid awake turning this conundrum over and over in my mind...I'm sure I will sleep a little sounder tonight...thanks ...forgive the jesting...actually I'm really impressed
Another of my peeves is the use of the prime as an apostrophe. It's true that sign painters used simple hash marks for apostrophes and quotes, but when using computer fonts I feel it's better to use the correct marks, unless we're doing something stylized. The prime and the double prime are properly used for feet/inches and minute/seconds. But they are not really apostrophes or quotation marks. The apostrophe on a PC is accessed by ALT+0146. Similar codes yield the single and double quote marks.
I know that customers will rarely object to hash marks used as apostrophes. But I could also misspell words and there are some customers who would never know. That is not a good argument for doing it intentionally. And once in a while you will actually come across an architect who makes an issue of punctuation. We had one that rejected page after page of submittal drawings because we used hyphens instead of en dashes on room number signs. ......
I also agree with you that many times a phone number on a sign is a waste. I cringe when I see a sign from far off and the only thing I can read is the phone number because it's bigger than anything else.
Now, about people who use quotation marks for "emphasis..."
Brad
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The one I could never get was "sic", or rather [sic]. So as written? Why not just put the phrase being spotified in parens.
Then there is Bona Fide. Why the separation? We all know it as Bonafide.
The best one, though is Lege Artis...'according to the law of the art'. We should all use that after our names as sign painters. That is Hoyle with how we follow all of these absurdata rulios....or is it just hooey?
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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...forgive the jesting...actually I'm really impressed
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