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They feel like they are in control of their art so they put themselves on their imaginary pedestals by making it difficult for anyone else to use their file. They are truly legends in their own minds.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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1. ... to supply font name or font file with artwork (alternatively: when selling a client a cute logo, tell him the name of the fonts used so he can relay that infor to his sign guy!!!) 2. ... to Convert graphic outlines to curves and how to weld, trim and join the overlapping elements that result. 3. ... about bitmap resolutions and why 300 dpi is better than 72 dpi 4. ... a screen grab on your smart phone will look really, really bad blown up on the side of your race car ... YOU NEED THE ORIGINAL FILE 5. don't dis the artist who designed the ORIGINAL FILE, or he won't give it to you just so you can bring it to me when you go behind his back in search of another sign shop!!!!!!!!!!
any others????
[ July 26, 2011, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Michael Gene Adkins ]
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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I learned yesterday about how to get a better file from the graphic designer of a client. This had to due with file size and also my discriminating more on having the file preparation done by their graphic designer more than me trying to figure out someone else's work. I am not implying you do this just that it cost me a lot to work out a file to be ready for my needs and drawing the line in the begining more is what I will be doing from now on. It really eats into profits otherwise.
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I used to specify to my wholesale awning customers that certain prices depended on receiving vector art from their client. Now, they depend on receiving usable vector art.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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There seems to be an on-going bias against anyone that went to school for graphic design.
Would that same bias be held against any other professional? How about a doctor? A computer tech? You wouldn't prefer that those people didn't have a decent education.
I believe that those things probably are taught... my guess is that it's the particular individual that is lazy.... or maybe they were one of the 'D' students.
Laziness and incompetency doesn't necessarily equate to a poor educational experience.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Fifty percent of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class. I guess the same goes for graphic designers.
I heard that Muhammad Ali graduated last in his high school class... but he probably out earned the rest of the class put together. However, I sure wouldn't trade for his injured brain. He probably wonders if it was worth it as well.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Alz I no iz I kin reed this nifftee webpage becuz I wuz taut to reed and rite in the twelf graid. If ejucashun iz a bad thang... then letz git rid of it altogethr. Who needz it?!
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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How about they teach the basics????? Proportion, contrast, legibility...stuff like that. From what I've seen it's NOT being taught.
Has anybody on here gone to school for graphic design that can say for sure???
Todd, I think the bias comes about from the fact that most decent sign designers know an awful lot of what a graphic designer does. I've had many conversations with computer techs and doctors. Most have me asking them to put it in "plain English" so I can understand what they are saying. The only time a graphic artist loses me is in referencing his tools ( software ) How many have dealt with a design done for a 4x8 that they want put on a 3x5 with NO changes made?
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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I think some of the confusion comes about as a result of lack of experience as a field relates to 'similar' fields.
Young graphic design people naturally wouldn't know exactly how a sign guy might need his art, because the newly hired graphic designer hasn't had extensive interaction with that break-away art field.
Kind of like when I hear 'framers' complain about architect drawings..... "You can't do that - take away that idiot's pencil."
Practical application needs to be taught by professionals such as (some of) us. It's our duty and it's part of OUR job. As we educate those we interact with, our jobs become somewhat easier, and in turn - we've done our part to expand the practical education of others. It's really kind of neat if you think about it.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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After 18 yrs of doing clip art & type, I really don't give a damn. Now I'm fighting with the Adobe,Aps. and thinking the same thing...
Let'er fly...
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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being an ART MAJOR in college, and the assistant to the art prof the time i spent there, some can draw...other CANT. if you cant do it then take another class...............it that simple. when i had my shop i had kids comin in askin for a job and they tell me "iam a graphic designer." i gave em a big yellow legal pad and a PENCIL......and said ok DRAW ME SOMETHING))))) then the "deer in the headlights" look and oh i cant draw, i do it on a computer....thats what makes people shy away from people who call themselves GRAPHIC DESIGNER!
[ July 27, 2011, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Why should they care? Not everyone needs vectors. screenprinters dont, printers dont, we are pretty much it and to be honest with you if I didnt have to learn how to do it I wouldnt bother with it
I would like to know one thing though, I can receive a simple 3 color design and that damn thing will have 15 layers on it.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Bruce/Si, when you're talking about getting a file with 15 layers - are you talking about a Photoshop file, or vector file?
If it's a Photoshop file - I personally like a ton of layers... and I design so that every major effect is on it's own layer. That way, I have great flexibility on eliminating or reworking an effect without having to rebuild an entire file from scratch. I find it to be extremely beneficial.
All my major design components are purposely created on their own layer so that if I decide I don't like 'one element/portion' of a design... I can easily change JUST it without impacting any other portion of the design. I believe this is a beneficial/critical - and logical way of building files.
Now, if you're talking vectors, I'd say it depends on the complexity of the design. I would still generally build in several layers for the reason that: It's much easier to isolate and pick out individual sections/elements/components of a complex design when they are logically separated into layers with easy-to-understand, clearly defined layer descriptions/names.
I don't see the problem with layers at all. Layers are my friend. I'd rather get a file with layers than not, unless it's a VERY simple design that wouldn't need them.
Plus - if you don't like a file with layers, it's only a click or two of the mouse to 'flatten or merge' the layers down to what you may consider a more manageable configuration.
Low resolution rasters? Now that's another thing - there is no call for that and no excuse for not knowing they don't work in any output media.
Also - one of my biggest pet peeve's regarding files is when a person 'links' raster images and then don't provide them along with the file. What? I'm supposed to levitate these images from their computer to mine???? AAaargh!
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Well, actually there is a good reason not to convert fonts to curves, besides the obvious ability to edit fonts. At the smaller sizes most graphic designers work, printer fonts are more accurate than fonts converted to curves. The correct procedure is to collect the fonts with the placed images and submit them all to the printer. PDF files embed the fonts, so many graphic designers have gotten out of (or never had)the habit of including fonts.
At the sizes we work on for signs, we would of course rather have fonts converted to curves.
-------------------- Paul Luszcz Zebra Visuals 27 Water Street Plymouth, MA 02360 508 746-9200 paul@zebravisuals.com Posts: 483 | From: 27 Water Street, Plymouth, MA 02360 | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Paul Luszcz: PDF files embed the fonts, , so many graphic designers have gotten out of (or never had)the habit of including fonts.
At the sizes we work on for signs, we would of course rather have fonts converted to curves.
Paul, I have received a number of PDF files that had used fonts that where NOT resident on my system. Each time I got a prompt to the effect that fonts not found, will be substituted. This reeks havoc with a layout. Am I missing something in what you said?
-------------------- Bob Cole American Sign Company 14163 Akron Canfield Rd. Berlin Center, Ohio 44401
A.K.A. Vinylman® Posts: 575 | From: Berlin Center, Ohio, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Bob, the PDF should have the fonts embedded as long as you are viewing it as a PDF. If you try to open it with something like Illustrator, it's going to look for the font on your own system.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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most of you are talking about learning production art, which is really not taught in schools- it's one thing to design or learn how to design (which is most of the theory stuff taught in schools, not so much hands-on skills). That design has to be able to be produced for various uses- the sign industry is just one of those uses, but even that can be various (vectors for vinyl cutting, cmyk rasters for printing, RGB lower-res images for web related stuff, and so on...)
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1735 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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and then ... here comes the " let's save as the Latest Version " as everyone has already upgraded their program! ;-)
For the font "problem" I know that most of the time it's a crossplatform issue. as MacOS fonts and PC don't read/work the same.
I do believe that part of a good graphic artist mandate is to make shure that the integrity of the design is maintained, to make files that are the most universaly compatible and to respect specs provided by from their "vendor".
-------------------- Élaine Beauchemin scrip Lettrage Scripsit inc. St-Hubert, Quebec, Canada www.scripsit.net Posts: 1096 | From: Saint-Hubert, Québec, Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Deri, when I get some file that were saved on a mac. All of the fonts are at 0 bites in the folder containing the fonts. Even had some Dfont files that had to be unziped a perticular way in order to read the ttf file in it.
considering getting a (not too old) mac and put cs in it...to open those.
-------------------- Élaine Beauchemin scrip Lettrage Scripsit inc. St-Hubert, Quebec, Canada www.scripsit.net Posts: 1096 | From: Saint-Hubert, Québec, Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
todd no Im referring to a simple design and it will have 15 copies of itself sitting one on top of the other, no gradients no nothing, i just dont get it
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
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