posted
I tried a new vendor for some dimensional signs and let's just say it hasn't been a pleasant experience thus far.
I have two signs that I have been painting (sprayed with HVLP) and one is fine, the other is a mess. It looks like the sandblasting was done around the edges first and created a ridge of some type. Then there are areas by the trees that are weird as well.
I have four coats on these signs and it is just getting worse. Any ideas on how to salvage this? I'm getting no where with the vendor. They are blaming my painting process which makes no sense because the identical sign next to it is fine. UGH! I really hate to paint this with a brush as it takes forever and gets too thick for me. But do you think that will make a difference?
This is Sherwin Williams paint (which I am not loving either). Will it all blend in when weathered a bit? I have painted hundreds of dimensional signs and never seen this before.
See below.
[ June 24, 2011, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Amy Brown ]
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Amy, I can't think of anything during the sandblasting process that could do that, although this appears to have nothing to do with the paint. In about 800 dimensional signs, the only time I've seen anything like that was when I've used FSC 88 primer as a filler when the rest of the primer was BM Fresh Start. I have, however, seen HDU with denser areas in it. I suppose changing blasting media part way through could cause that, but if they're blasting with lots of air, that shouldn't cause a problem either. The pattern to it has me bewildered, though. It appears that you're not using any primer. You may have to put a coat of primer over what's there to make your top coats more consistent. If they won't do anything for you, or even look at it, that may be your only option. If it's hard spots in the HDU, you'll have to put an extra coat where it's less dense. Sorry, no magic solution.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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Maybe painting over it with a flat finish would help. Many coats might do the trick. I remember a similar problem and that was my solution which improved it but not completely.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Can I paint flat over satin or do I have to prime over the satin?
This paint is totally dry but feels really sticky. I never use Sherwin-Williams but I was in a time crunch and couldn't drive 80 miles to get the paint I like. Live and learn, right!
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Amy, those dark colours take forever to completely dry when it's humid. It doesn't seem to matter what brand. I have similar issues in the summer here. I think it's because the base is almost clear & they don't dry as fast. You don't need to re-prime, but I don't think there'll be much difference between flat & satin. You may have issues though with so many layers of paint, especially if they haven't had time to dry thoroughly. When it's humid, I try to leave 48 hours between coats (just on vibrant colours). Sounds nuts, but that seems to solve the problem. As long as that's feeling sticky you shouldn't put another coat over top.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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I have had this happen... ONLY when no primer is used. Personally I would water a primer down with say a 10 - 15% mix (10% water 90% primer) and respray light coats. You need to "level" the cells of the HDU and seal them. It appears the paint is really soaking in and what you can see is the inconsitencies in the HDU.
posted
Ive had this happen to routed pvc and I did prime! I tell you what I do when its like this instead of repainting flat if you will allow back to fully dry and mist paint on top of it it will kill those spots
either mist it with clear or paint itself FIXED!
[ June 25, 2011, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: bruce ward ]
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
I'm with David and Bruce. I think a few coats of flat will 'deaden' the problem. Personally, then, I'd go over the lettering with gloss, for a good contrast.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Sorry to hear about this happening to you, Amy. I have no suggestions beyond what has already been said. No idea what caused it other than hard spots in the HDU.
What brand and weight are they using?
The Sherwin Williams paint will stay soft for some time. Just the nature of the beast. I use Porter and still some of the darker colors take a long time to fully dry.
The flat paint will have less reflection and shiny spots which will help some.
I would suggest getting another company to do the blasting for you.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I never, never, never, never use paint on backgrounds. Did I say never? Latex stain is faster, easier, cheaper. Two coats = 15 years + no problem. (Maybe 3 in that harsh Florida weather. True Value or Mautz is the best.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Amy, I am forever in your debt. I make myself available to you, should you ever need a favour. (I've got to stop watching movies like Jane Eyre)
posted
oh.... I forgot what this post was about. (LOL) Amy you could get some of those over the knee boots and that would calm them down, maybe take care of the problem.
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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Yes, Sandy, after seeing those legs, I can't notice any bad spots in the panel at all!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Thanks for all of the suggestions. After talking to a few folks and the paint store I am going to try a couple light coats of flat paint to see what happens. I have learned a few things with this project.
1. On the loss of my other vendor, you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone!
2. Always drive that 80 miles round trip to buy your tried and true paint!
3. Don't post pics with your helper in them! Ha!
I'll let you guys know what happens. Wish me luck! I am hanging on by a thread here and sure don't want to eat thousands of dollars in sign work.
Happy Sunday!
[ June 26, 2011, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Amy Brown ]
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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To me, the 15lb. board explains the problem! It's not a paint problem.
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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Amy...this looks similar to what happened to me once...and it was not a painting problem but a blasting problem...it was only in about 3 areas so I was able to correct it by hand before painting...I too was using a lighter board that blasted away very fast...during the sandblasting I noticed areas where the adhesive had remained on the board after weeding...thinking it would blast away fast and easy I didn't feel the need to remove it...had I been using a denser board that blasted slower I would have been ok...but the lighter board blasted so fast that some depth had occurred in the board itself before the glue blasted away...leaving raised areas where the glue had been...thought I would relate this experience but cant say that it applies in your case...an extreme close up photo that includes both the darker and lighter areas of the background might help us know what is really going on back there...is there any textural or depth difference between those light and dark areas in the background
Yes, it is definitely a blasting problem. Just can't convince them! I didn't notice it before the first coat but right after it stuck out like a sore thumb. There is an obvious ridge where they did the outside perimeter first and then did the middle. Not sure what they did in the tree area but it is obviously a totally different texture that seems more flat and is taking paint faster.
I coated one coat of flat paint today. It's still very visible. Going to try one more tomorrow.
It just ticks me off because I don't do this kind of crappy work. The vendor should man up and admit their mistake and make it right. Even the paint store gave me free paint for my troubles and it has nothing to do with them!!
Now I am fighting with my damn laminator wrinkling everything too. Sometimes I wonder why I still do this. The ONLY reason is so I can have flexibility with my daughter. My love for it is far far gone.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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If there are textural differences in those areas of the background no paint can fix that...but flat does reflect the least...so use flat...unfortunately still going to look horrible...the 3 areas on my sign that looked like this I stippled down with an exacto blade till I could blend the areas into the surrounding background...given the extent of your problem this approach would be hard to reconcile with the time involved...but if that is what I'm seeing...this approach can improve those areas...but with an investment of time and a good feel for blending textures.
posted
Amy, just thought of something else. Are you priming or pre-painting the whole board before blasting? Especially with 15#, areas with a thicker layer of paint than the rest will take longer to blast away thus changing the texture. Just a thought.
One other thought if you can't salvage the look with paint would to do a new texture over the whole background with TSF-45 texture paint. It would be a pain but it might save you from starting over.
[ June 26, 2011, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I did have a job where everything was meant to be smooth. After one blowout & a bondo patch, the extra smoothness of the repair job was just so much shinier, it was awful. I used a heap of flat paint, but it made no difference. It still showed up as less textured & glossier.
In the end, after asking here, I used a spackle mix, and trowelled it all over the painted background with a bit of stiff p-lastic, then sanded it all smooth, getting 98% of it off, but after it was thoroughly dry, I quickly got paint on it, and it was then at least all of the same sheen. You have to be careful though, as the waterbased paint could redissolve and lift out the fine spackle remnants.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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its just a test maam. We all go thru it. Some days you wanna sell it all and go work a 40 hr week somewhere.
on the sign above I said MIST some flat or clean in it to kill it down. it may take a couple of shot son it. also adding color to the lettering and trees will also take away from the background.
All we are seeing now is the background. mist it down paint all lettering and trees and then look at it, im sur eit will be fine
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
This was sandblasted by a vendor raw and sent to me for paint. It looks like they had high points that they sanded down or something and then blasted over again. It is much smoother in those areas. Didn't notice before painting.
Rusty, I did like you and tries to texture it out some but it is so much.
Bruce, I was thinking the same as you in regard to geting the copy / borders painted. We will see!
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Were both signs cut from the same blank? Or were they cut from two separate blanks?
RMN
-------------------- Robare M. Novou Milwaukee Sign Works Milwaukee Wisconsin USA Posts: 21 | From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA | Registered: Mar 2003
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Could you post some close-up pictures of the affected areas?
RMN
-------------------- Robare M. Novou Milwaukee Sign Works Milwaukee Wisconsin USA Posts: 21 | From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA | Registered: Mar 2003
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Would it be possible to spray a coat of Kilz then Paint with your background Color? Also, 1 way to fix this would be to Smalt the Background. I know that would take some time & Money for the Smalt, but that would be a sure way to fix the problem.
-------------------- Kevin Betz KB Sign Company 21321 Ulrich Clinton Township, MI 48036 kbsigncompany@att.net Posts: 229 | From: Detroit, MI | Registered: Sep 2003
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I do not know those details as they were contracted out to a supplier and I did not do anything but paint them. They definately tried to fix something they messed up. If I get time later I'll post more pictures but I am trying to get away with what I have got for now since this vendor won't even return my calls. Jerks!
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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If these signs came from two different blanks, then one blank may have some dense areas to it, causing the difference in texture.
I have had that issue a few times.
Those affected areas on your sign also look like they are not dry yet. But if the sign is completely dry, than that could be just the way the those affect areas will stay. (bummer, I know)
I too would also spray latex/acrylic paint onto sandblasted HDU. And during the drying process, there would be areas that would dry faster than other areas, Causing that look you now have. But once it was completely dry, the background then had an even texture.
Do you know the manufacturer of the Blanks? You may want to send them some photos and have a chat, to see what the problem and solution maybe.
If need, you could take an awl or icepick to those problem areas to make them match the surrounding blasted background.
You could also re-mask your lettering and borders, and spray sand texture onto the background to get that even texture look.
More work, I know, but hey, what are you gonna do, short of starting over.
RMN
-------------------- Robare M. Novou Milwaukee Sign Works Milwaukee Wisconsin USA Posts: 21 | From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA | Registered: Mar 2003
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