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Has anyone had any issues with chemical or heavy metals contaminations causing problems? I have had this suggested as an answer to some health issues. Has anyone tried detoxification products?
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I owned a car shop for ten years where we restored old cars, from 78-88. I sprayed alot of gray primer, acrylic enamel with isocyanate hardener, acrylic lacquer and some urethanes. I wore a mask most of the time, but really was remiss about changing the filters often enough.
Then have been around One Shot, mineral spirits and fluoro enamels for the past 25 years alot...mostly outside with no mask, but never spraying.
I had the serious 'metals' check on my blood tests several times over the past ten years and when I was in the hospital for arrythmia problems two years ago, had extensive testing done on about every system in my body, as they could not figure out what was casuing it. They ended up thinking it was an alergic reaction to Black Locust seeds, as I had mulched the leaves (and seed pods from the locusts) four times the previous week with much sneezing and running eyes.
Never in all of the blood work and other testing, did they ever find anything relating to metals or any other paint related compounds in my blood. I run 96-98% every morning on my O2 level (part of the heart monitoring equipment I have to send into the Cardio unit), so my lungs are doing a fine job...and I still smoke tobacco!
My hunch is that tobacco, paint fumes, other particulates affect each of us differently and I am lucky to have had no problems. Bottom line is that I will probably die of some other thing, like being hit by a street car or a falling meteor, I guess. No cancer in my family, although some heart disease. With all of my exposure, you would think I would have something, but knock on wood. I do not.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've had some high numbers in blood work after using some of the solvents. I refrained from using any lacquer thinners or acetone or toluene and such for two weeks and repeated the blood work to find the number back in safe range. I used to hear that lead would enter via cuticles.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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i like preston, was into automotive paint for a few years and still am. when i need a piece painted i get out the spray gun, compressor and go at it. been playin in one shot since i was in my early teens. i bought a 1950 ford car in 1962, put it in our garage under the house, and proceeded to PRIME it with RED LEAD PRIMER!!!! in those days they sold an 18-20 oz spray can for $1.99!!!! took about 5-6 cans no MASK!!!!! i have zero lung problems, same with bones and joints. no arthritis or and problems. heart is a bit of a problem. but that comes more from genetics then any chemicals.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I don't know, Murray. There's so many factors. My uncle had a body shop/garage, and I started hanging out there in the late 50's.
They always had painting, bondo-ing, welding or whatever going on, as well as car engines running,with the doors closed. Neither of the two bodymen ever wore masks or anything while painting. There weren't any kind of warnings then; it was all open. Body work, as well as sanding and buffing went on, the same way. I used to love the smell of lacquer, bondo and (leaded) gas fumes.
Later in the sign business, I was more careful, particularly aroung catalyzed paints; but many times I primed a fender, or DA'd a boat transom, or sprayed a panel on a sign, without a mask. Shoot, there were times we went up to a friend/signman's shop when he'd be spraying lighted sign faces with Lacryl (big ones). He never wore any kind of mask, and most times, was smoking a cigarette too! That's asking for trouble.
I'm not aware that I encountered any physiological damage as a result. Hopefully, the old adage about "what you don't know, won't hurt you" may come into play.
I've had congenital high blood pressure for a long time; but nothing else has shown up in all the testing I've had done, since my stroke.
Like Preston said, different things affect different people in different ways. My wife almost goes crazy with coughing, if anyone's burning leaves in the area. Doesn't bother me at all.
I guess, bottom, line, you can't be too careful. Surely, some of these things can gang up on you, as you get older. Hopefully, any health issues you might run into, will be minor.
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The worst was that white wall cleaner. Butoselusol I think was the chemical. It sure got white walls white, but one breath and it grabbed you like a ball and chain. I had an employee fill up a sprayer that could be aired up with an air hose and he shot too much pressure in it. It exploded all over him and we hosed him down for a half hour with the car wash machine and water hose. His skin was kinda dry a few days, but no permanent damage. Today, it is that Tilex bathroom cleaner. It is pretty noxious.
Speaking of DAing...Those white 3M dust masks were all we ever used. I remember DAing off the remains of an entire 1950 Jag XK120 that had been chemically stripped. The primer was surely as full of lead as they ever were. Wore a dust mask. Took all day. Not even then did I have any breathing issues. Sure blew some red snot for a few days, though.
Then one time when I was in college, another guy and I had to blow synthol enamel on ten state dump trucks out in a field one summer. Nothing but dust masks. The wind was fine for ventilation, but the other guy had blonde long hair and it went orange for days, as nothing would wash it out. You should have seen the paint jobs. They were covered in gnats, dirt and whatever the wind blew up. At least they were orange. We were SO-O-O careless.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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My uncle Paul, who I never had the opportunity to meet, died at a very young age as a result of exposure to the chemicals he used while working on trade show displays and other silk screening projects. Granted, back in the 70, people knew less then about the healths risks they posed.
Given that history I have always made sure...
1: Know what your using. Be it new paint, adhesives, cleaning solutions, overcoats or any other material that you might be directly exposed to, never assume it is safe and check every label. If you are unsure, contact the manufacturer or search online for the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for that specific product.
2: Keep it clean. If you spray a lot of paints, be sure that there is plenty of ventilation, invest in clean masks and filters and don't take them off until you are sure the overspray has cleared out. Another good habit is to wear a mask when sweeping up after spraying anything. Particles that fall to the floor are often fine enough to hang in the air when the broom kicks it up.
3: Follow your nose. Strong smells often indicate bad chemicals. Anything that smells different than it usually does could mean it's been altered. Some materials have limited shelf life and break down over time. Heavy materials can sink to the bottom of cans and result in chemicals rising to the top unmixed. Cleaning materials can become polluted. Generally, if it doesn't "smell right" it's better to invest in fresh materials than risk not only your health, but the job's quality as well.
4: Mix it up. Try to schedule your work so that you aren't using hazardous materials for prolonged periods. There's always plenty do do. Do spraying or coating, etc and plan on cutting vinyl, doing an installation, contacting customers, or whatever you need to get done in a separate location. Sitting around watching paint dry adds time to exposure and it's pretty boring so you're not missing anything anyway.
5: Be prepared for "Just in case" Spills, splashes and boo boos happen. Be sure to have the proper cleaning materials handy for those occasions. Gloves, rags, eye wash, bandages, plenty of clean water on hand, etc. Be aware of any discomfort or burning sensations, skin discolorations and other indicators that are tell you to take a minute and and address them.
6: Keep it to yourself. Customers happen. If you know the materials you're using can have adverse effects, do everything you can to ensure customers don't walk into it. Hang a sign, lock a door, stop and escort them away...whatever it takes. If they insist on watching, let them ONLY if they agree to take the necessary steps for their safety.
I know these are pretty basic rules, but it's never bad to remind ourselves that wiping our hands on our favorite pair of painter pants isn't always going be enough...and no job ever pays well enough to take risks with your health.
My 2 pesos... Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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I've had repeated testing done for heavy metals and chemical poisoning due to some autoimmune issues, but nothing has ever shown up. I still wonder though.....
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Dale, that guy who would back spray lacryl with a cigarette going? I worked with a guy just like that. I was really glad when translucent vinyl came along. I sprayed a lot of faces. I also screen printed and painted a lot of vinyl banners. I don't miss that either.
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I'll agree, Brent, that translucent vinyl has alleviated a lot of problems. But it has also paved the way for a lot of shortcuts, the stuff being used in ways it wasn't intended. As a consequence, there are now a lot of lighted sign faces, and channel letters, that are faded out and tacky-looking.
Just another way to give our craft a bad name.
And Ray, you talk about keeping it to yourself...back in the 70's I was doing some restoration and body work. We had a man stop in, with his family, one Friday evening about closing time. They had just drove over from Pennsylvania, purchased a 20 ft. hydroplane, and wanted us to paint some graphics on it, so they could go to a race in Madison, IN on Sunday. They insisted on Imron.
Being the greedy dude I was, I shot them a price, and got to work. They insisted on sitting in the shop, and watching me work! Friday nite, thru all the prep; and most of the day Saturday, with Imron fumes flying, They sat there and watched.
At the end, they were very happy with the job; paid me and left. I often wondered if they suffered any ill effects, but a couple months later, they sent me an autographed 8 X 10 of the boat at a race, so I guess everything was OK.
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I wish I could get a full battery of tests, but with our high deductable on our major medical, that would surely put us in a huge financial hole where the stress of paying the bills would probably kill me. I has hoping our country would get a health care system that would allow citizens to get tests before things go wrong instead of after they go wrong. I think that was the original intent, but once things got lobbied and amended whatever health care system that is in place is so complicated that you would have a better chance of reading the Bible upside down and backwards. It'll give rise to more lawyers which is just what we don't need. The sad fact is my family would benefit better financially with my demise as they're at least adequately covered by my life insurances.
Like some of you I've worked with them all and have not always taken the precautions. I do try to keep my family and customers out of the shop area as I work with catalyzed urethanes. I quit spraying these products and have learned to brush and roll them and I wear gloves and masks when the ventilation is not there like when the doors are closed in the winter. The damage may have already been done.
I think we get used to it all and while people who enter our environment may complain about the fumes, we say, "what fumes."
We used to have the local high school commercial art class do a field trip to the shop every year. We stopped doing it when a student passed out from the fumes. She was facing me when she started going down and that's when it struck me that "wow, it may be too ripe in here."
That's why I've been moving more and more towards waterbase paints and using automotive clears only for a final step -- wearing a mask and gloves while doing it and doing it right before going home for breakfast and lunch and then clearing out. I wish the technology allowed a full healthy system for painting paints that would hold up in all kinds of environments for a good long time. Waterbase is good except for certain colors, I've found.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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I was at a sign show when I overheard Bob Bond talking about lead in paint. I watched him stroke his pin striping brush with is thumb and index finger. Been doing it for 30+ years and he said when he had a heavy metals test done... guess what... zero lead. Ask him.
So why did they ruin our good sign paint by taking the lead out? Certainly not for the health of sign painters! I would bet that signs painted with lead based One Shot over a period of 50 years wouldn't put as much lead in the environment as one day of burning leaded gasoline would. Really, what would the overall effect be? Negligible! I'm going back in my corner now.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Well as you may all know that i have CCL (Chronic Lymphatic Leukemia). I did not get it from any of the products I use. Doctors don't even know why people get this. They think, maybe, pestisides. If anything, I think I did more damage to myself in the 10 years I did waitressing. When I waitressed, you could still smoke in restaurants. So for nine to and sometines sixteen hours a day, I was in a smoke filled enviroment. PS, I do not smoke, and never have.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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alicia, did your doctor every check you for "cat scratch fever?" i was 9 years old and was diagnosed with Leukemia. a young veterinarian student came into the cancer ward and fonund me, did a biopsy on a small wound i got from a cat that never totally healed and couple days later they sent me home.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Sorry Old Paint, no cats, no unhealed wounds festering or ozzing anywhere on my old beaten and overworked flesh.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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ill have to give you the number to my PACEMAKER/DIFIB)))))))))))) got a damn computer in my chest)))))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Alicia, I seriously doubt that you got Leukemia from whiffing second-hand smoke for ten years. I grew up when almost everybody smoked everywhere. I smoked a pack a day of non-filtered Pall Malls for about 60 years and then switched to cigars five years ago. I have no lung problems. I used to get one cold a year but now havent had a one for several years and never had one bad enough to make me miss work.
The only time I get sick is once in a while when I spend too long a time doing very concentrated work without relaxing now and then. Then I get weak and dizzy and have to take a nap for a couple hours to get back in shape.
-------------------- dennis kiernan independent artist san francisco, calif, usa Posts: 907 | From: san francisco, ca usa | Registered: Feb 2010
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I get a test every 2nd year for heavy metals-lead etc, because of the lead paint you get on your fingers while striping, & inhale while spraying. My levels are about 5% of the expected average of anyone-much lower than normal-it doesn't quite make sense-unless city-ites just naturally used to get more lead in their systems due to lead petrol exhaust or something and maybe they never changed the standard measurememts after lead in fuel was outlawed...
[ May 16, 2011, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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We can see where they hook you up to power your pacemaker / defib. Looks like they gave you the budget version. Just grab the jumper cables and hook 'em up.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Although good acryl sticks well, covers very good, dries real fast, last forever; colors too, it does look like **** without sanding and when it comes to toxicness Ill take the old oilbased any day, at least there we can smell the poison and make sure we got adeqate ventilation/protection.
-------------------- Stein Saether GullSkilt AS Trondheim Posts: 1183 | From: Trondheim Norway | Registered: Nov 1998
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