posted
oh that's just one arsehole spewing off bullshyt...and trying to make $ off it. My dentist rocks but his signage SUCKS!! lol This arrogant douchebag probably had a bad experience with a signmaker and is generalizing our profession...kinda how I feel about lawyers and vets in general...lol. I wouldn't let this prick ruin your day.
[ April 29, 2011, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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If that dentist only had a chance to spend a week with one of us ...
I've alway been amazed by broad generalizations. I don't know how many times I've been called "Easy Money" or had somebody ask "what are you going to do with all your money?" Or "I knew a guy who did that when I was young, and he had to down a 5th of whiskey -- before he got started." We hear it and it hurts. Thank goodness we have a place like this to vent. It's health to vent.
What really hurts is a dentist yanks around in a persons mouth and, outside of some basic science is just a technician. How does their occupation compare to an occupation such as ours that demands constant creativity and a variety of skills and salesmanship.
It's sort of like kicking a dog when he's down. That man needs to be invited to spend a day with a letterhead to garner some humility and to see whose the generous one and whose the thief. This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.
We spent quite a bit of time with dentists last year. They know how to charge. The one thing they have over us is they feel entitled to charge because they have the degree and have the license that gives them the abreviation behind their name.
Eventually folks will realize that degrees and titles are just that. They don't automatically give a person more worth.
Let's file a class action suit against the jerk for "defamation of characher." As a joke of course ... but if he's expecting a thief ...
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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This guy is an example of a shrewd business man. He shows just how many sign people devalue their own work. I am not saying he's a nice guy...... He does mention spending 40K on signs as a helpful investment. Too frequently our pricing (profit margin) is on a sliding scale to fit our immediate need. When we do it it is just what's neccesary, when others do it it feels like thievery. This world needs some respect for others. Rah, rah sessions look after dentists just as our magazines and forums cater to us. I guess I do not have the energy to blast this guy for the splinters in his eyes this morning, I have a few beams in my own.
[ April 29, 2011, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: Bob Sauls ]
-------------------- Bob Sauls Sauls Signs & Designs Tallahassee, Fl
"Today I'll meet nice people and draw for them!" Posts: 765 | From: Tallahassee, Fl | Registered: Jun 2009
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Bob Sauls . . . While I agree in principle with what you're saying (many sign shop owners are poor businessmen), the VALUE he places on himself - and signage - does not translate properly in a statement descrbing those in the profession as 'thieves' . . .
Which is it?
Are signs a bad value working 24-7-365 and rated the least costly form of public advertisement?
Or are the prices inflated and the owners all distrustful and greedy?
It can't be both . . .
He does NOT say we devalue our work - he says HE devalues our work and we're ALL 'thieves'. Many in the profession are doing the devaluing (I will give you that) - and this man's shtick rides that horse even harder.
I don't think that's proper OR professional.
I have bright eyes this morning also - and share in the joy of living as you stated so well . . . But if there is someone who is publicly denigrating your own personal family, do you choose silence over respect? That's all we wish for - respect. He didn't give that in his comment.
'Turn the other cheek' is fine . . . but this is in a public forum and his caustic remarks are hypocritical to his message of a sign's value to a dentist.
THAT is the part of the message I disapprove of. The part where he disrespects and entire profession . . . and labels ALL in one category:
Thieves.
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Given, his advise to dentists is not a review of one's performance, it still leads in the direction of a defamation lawsuit and it's viability. Any use here?
-------------------- Mike gatlinburg Sign Crafters Posts: 1051 | From: Gatlinburg, TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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I've built sandblasted HDU signs for two different dentists. I didn't make a killing on the signs and I'm confident that the dentists got their money's worth. After several years the signs still look good 've not heard one complaint from either of them.
This guy is just one of probably hundreds of dentist consultants on the net and I'm sure the vast majority don't use such childish and unprofessional statements. He will reap what he sows.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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LOL! This is TOO funny....& ironic. We are working on a project for OUR dentist, who (my bad!) have bardered with him, given him free artwork, etc.... again lesson learned... He now wants full payment and the patient can submit paperwork to insurance company, MUST have full set of x-rays every 2 yrs... , etc... much more to write... he just built the taj mahal of a state of the art 3 story huge building... has a tennant and room for another, is getting into the scam of cosmetic dentistry, etc... and is now ... JUST THIS A.M. sent me an email telling me that he is going to have to get 3 other bids and is concerned about my price. A week AFTER He Signed My Contract!!! What a dill!!
I was floored. People NEVER cease to amaze me. I know my price is right and it will be interesting to see what he gets. To be continued.
I've learned how to handle this now... calm, breathe, no panic... sales are really challenging now in this crazy wall street government economy.
Lesson: Never Mix Business with Pleasure and ALWAYS get PAID for EVERY MINUTE OF YOUR TIME!!
Wow, I'm getting all heated now... yeah well. Let me go change the oil in my 2000 VW and my 1996 shop truck! LOL
The rich are never rich enough. I'm glad I'm not rich. If I got rich I'd open an animal shelter & work on the environment. Another subject. Windmills for everyone!! LOL!
Have a great weekend! Weather is beautiful and pray for the Alabama people.
-------------------- Summit Signs 231 Victoria Rd Venice, Fla 34293 sales@summitsign.com http://www.summitsign.com Design Is The Difference. Posts: 271 | From: Venice, Fla | Registered: Mar 1999
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Jay, What do you want him to do change his mind? Add in my opinion all signmakers are thieves? It seems you are intentionally misunderstanding my point while trying to agree with it.
In a perfect world all of the signmakers in America should stand firm on their prices and not negotiate when dealing with dentist. Then all dentist would know that this speaker was full of beans, It would be him that they would recognized as a theif. Disseminating false information about how easily sign-makers are rolled. Perhaps I'll be in your debt after you threaten him with a liable suit and he changes what he's saying about all of us. You keep swinging away at it and I'll go back to work. I hope you'll feel as good at the end of the day about what you've spent your energy on. Now I'll make some assuptions which is always dangerous. This guy is taking up a lot of space on his site about signs. I can't imagine many dentist who would not think this odd. It leads me a simple sign-maker to assume he may have a kink in his personality. Of coarse if I were as clever as a dentist I might even say he was off on a personal tangent which may have a medical componant. I suspect that he's angry that the professional signmaker my actually charge a higher hourly rate than some dentist do. This is the main reason I left the practice of dentistry. ...........................Love you guys.
-------------------- Bob Sauls Sauls Signs & Designs Tallahassee, Fl
"Today I'll meet nice people and draw for them!" Posts: 765 | From: Tallahassee, Fl | Registered: Jun 2009
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Jay, Tim Horton's was bought by Wendy's volley ball isn't a real sport like say, ROAD HOCKEY, so that doesn't count,and yes, we all know you got nothin when it comes to hockey, stunt ridin harleys? now thats another story, you got me there Real men play on big fields, I guess the guys in the NATIONAL FELON LEAGUE must be too oughta shape you be sure and get the stanley cup all buffed up, it will soon be leaving for a new home, with a new bunch of Canadians based somewhere in north america
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
posted
Yeah, the landlord had some pest company spray around the air conditioner to get rid of our bee problem. Was here all of ten minutes and used my ladder. $250, if the thief description applies to some businesses, this guy moves up the list.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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<What do you want him to do change his mind?> Actually, yes I do, Bob.
Signs ARE a great value (he admits that signs are important in his statements) and sign shop owners are NOT thieves. I couldn't be more firm on that. If you think it is acceptable, that's perfectly fine. But facts prove otherwise . . . and HIS comment is all opinion. So the desire is to have him address the reason and source of his dissatisfaction - open lines of communication with someone slandering our porofession and not stick our heads in the sand and forget it was ever said.
<Add in my opinion all signmakers are thieves? It seems you are intentionally misunderstanding my point while trying to agree with it.>
Not at all . . . The part I agree with you about is not owning this man's bitterness or incorrect opinion and getting on with my day. (And it's a beautiful day here in sunny northern Illinois today!!) But if I saw someone hurting somebody else physically while walking down the street, I'm the type of person who would stop and help - not dismiss it as none of my concern and get about my busy day.
I see this affecting not only ME - but a 'family' of sign shop owners I know to be reputable, honest, hard-working and far from being even remotely close to being 'thieves' . . .
So I spoke up . . . I won't own his anger or contempt nor let it affect my day either, Bob. I see clearly what you're saying . . . but I couldn't let it go . . . and now it is over and done.
I have no intentions of pursuing the man legally for his careless remarks . . . but silence is submission - and it isn't ME he defames. It is ALL of us . . .
If I had not brought this to other sign shop owner's attention, then some shop owners might well continue our past ways of undercharging and not fully realizing the worth of a sign. Knowing fools like this are out there requires going on the offensive . . . and not sitting idly by as one fool brands an entire industry as disreputable.
Been there now, done with that . . . Life moves ahead now . . .
I hope he changes his verbiage on his web page. He'll still say it in private, more than likely - but slandering an entire profession as he did is opinion - not fact. He's selling facts - by his own description.
Now he has one more fact to consider and tell his dentist/clients: Sign shop owners are NOT thieves - and they are very well connected to one another!! LOL
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jay, I saw you In Danville and I am sorry that there was not more time to visit, in person with everyone That I would like to be friends with including you. It is a stunningly beautiful day here in sunny Tallahassee as well. I Have enjoyed the spirited discourse today.
-------------------- Bob Sauls Sauls Signs & Designs Tallahassee, Fl
"Today I'll meet nice people and draw for them!" Posts: 765 | From: Tallahassee, Fl | Registered: Jun 2009
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Bob . . . I've been an admirer or your work since you fist popped up here at Letterville. You're a stellar designer. We'll get our chances in the future to meet up. I'm also pleased with this conversation and points made . . . Communication makes the world go round.
It's funny that you brought up the points you did. I feel VERY strongly that one should never get mired in the problems or issues that exist in other people's lives - or let certain issues consume our own. Though my point there might also seem hypocritical (considering my comment to Mr. Du Molin's sill remark), it isn't. Let me explain (though I think you're already aware of it and think it also) . . .
Too often we get all worked up and let our emotions boil over. The next day (or sometimes a few days later) we often regret our 'boiling point' issue we embraced. Your point is spot on with how I feel . . . don't get mired in the minutia - or in somebody's 'negative' energy. Let it go....
You pointed out exactly that - and that was the next point I was going to bring up . . . "time to move on" . . .
You and I are both looking outside today and feeling gratitude for being alive, right-thinking minds, respectful and joyful. The weather mirrors that feeling. THAT is the real point to embrace once the 'issues' we face get settled . . . gratitude and not letting the 'bad' feelings outweigh the 'good' feelings.
All too often people will live for revenge - or get stuck with a negative 'energy' that destroys the very soul inside us.
When my dear friend, Renata Guzman was diagnosed wtih cancer she taught me an extremely valuable lesson. She strongly felt that her anger and disappointment with her mother (long story) was the cause of her cancer - and that it had festered inside her for so long, it eventually manifested iitself in a physical way.
Whether metaphorically speaking or not, her point was: "If we let anything eat us up inside, it will...."
I will go to my grave with that understanding - and TRY every day to stay happy and grateful for what I have and all things joyful.
But when I see an inequity, I will speak up . . . say my piece . . . and then get back to the matters of the day.
You too, it seems . . . and THAT is a great thing!!
Thanks for the 'chat' and the chance to share ideas and viewpoints . . . and bring up terrific issues for open discussion. We're all in this together!!
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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There are thieves in every profession. To broad brush all in a group because of a few is a common tool of bigotry.
I’ve had very nice experiences doing signs for dentists, and some really bad ones, too. Before I invested all that time and expertise the last time I tried to negotiate a sign package for a dental office, maybe I should have spent $247.00 with TheWealthyDentist.com to find out what I was really up against, for it might have been money well spent. After my experience with the wealthy dentist who wanted signs for his fancy new digs, I can assure you there was thievery, but it certainly wasn’t at my end of the deal.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Sign makers give signs in return for money and dentists take money to take your teeth away from you. Who's the thief again?
I heard from a reliable source that dentists and signmakers have had a symbiotic relationship from the very beginning. Si Allen once painted a cave wall in return for his dentist using a rock to bash out a bad tooth.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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It just looks like another cheezy-infomercial-psycho-babble site to me. Did you watch the video clip..... Why give it the time of day. Unless someone wants to sell him a website. The guys probably so excited about all the attention and hits he is getting this week, his traffic is likely up 100x. Life is too short.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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I'd guess that the skill and knowledge of a good auto mechanic is about the same as that of a good dentist. I'd also guess that their capital expense and overhead are about the same. If so, why does one charge about five times the hourly rate of the other?
-------------------- dennis kiernan independent artist san francisco, calif, usa Posts: 907 | From: san francisco, ca usa | Registered: Feb 2010
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The REALLY wealthy dentists are the ones who got into making and marketing Tartar Sauce. That stuff is so expensive because I've heard that it takes a dozen Dental Hygenists an entire month to collect enough tartar to fill just one jar.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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OOOOOOkay!!!Let's take it one at a time, shall we?
* How to generate from 10 to 30 additional new patients a month with a well-positioned set of dental office signs! Hang them with bag ties over your door. When a customer comes, release one bag tie so the sign strikes him in his mouth, knocking out two or more of his teeth. Bill for replacement teeth.
* The economics of dental signage and how to add $1,000,000 or more to your bottom line over the life of your office sign. Place a powerful magnet in the sign to attract people with braces and repeat step one.
* How to pay for the cost of your new facility with new patients from properly positioned signage - Tip: don't contract for a new facility until you've heard this! Place it in the back of a pickup truck and have it fall out in front of your "old facility". When the guy behind it swerves into your building to avoid hitting the sign, collect on the building insurance and sue the driver for lost income.
* Learn how to position a "Monument" vs. a "Pole" sign and which is best. There's some stuff about dead Polish people there, but I'll refrain and let his political incorrectness do it's own dirty work.
* Learn exactly how big, how bright and how tasteful your sign should be. Translation: Big, big Brush Script, Red and Black on white, hang a potted plant from it.
* Learn the four dental sign elements you MUST have, and the the two that are optional - and how to position them and prioritize them. 1: Letters 2: Numbers 3: Something to put the letters and numbers on. 4: A building to place it on or near Optional: 1: A big cheesy looking tooth in 3D 2: A big cheesy looking toothbrush in 3D.
* Learn how to negotiate with the local signage companies - Tip: they are all thieves! Umm, Doctor I HAVEN'T PULLED A TOOTH IN 20YEARS BECAUSE I DO OVERPRICED SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS.....who you calling thieves. Most of the people on this website have forgotten more than you'll ever learn about effective and tasteful signage and we share our knowledge here for FREE.
* How to use your dental office sign to "Pre-Heat" your new patients for higher case acceptance. Okay, now he's leaning toward neon lights and scantily clad girls in windows. This only works under Amsterdam sign ordinances.
* When, and more importantly, when not to, put your office logo on your signs. When your being sued for malpractice would be one of those "when not to" moments.
* Learn the secret of how to protect your signage against graffiti artists and vandals. Does this involve gun permits and rabid Pit Bulls?
* Learn how to update "Tired" signs for next to no money. This probably involves a can of Rustoleum and some stencils, huh?
* How to double your new patients when you have "walk-by" traffic. Give out a $hitload of free fertility drugs and hope they have twins who need braces.
* How to turn your office windows into landmark entertainment centers promoting your dentistry. Back to the Amsterdam marketing campaign again?
* Learn why spending $40,000-plus on signage might just be the best dental marketing investment you ever made. Lemme guess? You're selling them at 40K, jobbing it out to the "thieves" for a fraction of that pocketing the rest.
Honestly, this guy's great. If you have any doubts, just ask him. I'm sure he'll be more than happy to tell you he's great. Hell, he probably won't inhale for a half hour.
Personally, I love tossing these kinds of people out of my shop. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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He finally cleaned up all of our sign friends "comments" off of his facebook page. Guess he FINALLY checked in...
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Ya don't want to know his suggestion to me when we visited today!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Because I carry a grudge I filed a complaint with the BBB about this guy. Here is the complaint:
Complaint filed by: Ben Diaz Complaint filed against: The Wealthy Dentist.com Complaint status: Forward Business Response to Consumer Case Description: On the Wealthy Dentist website specifically on the page: http://thewealthydentist.com/dental-marketing/dentalsigns.htm It states that in the video tutorial it will include information on how to "Learn how to negotiate with the local signage companies - Tip: they are all thieves!" This is slanderous towards signmakers. Category: Advertising Issues Case opened date: 12/07/2011 Case closed date: Desired Resolution: The line "Learn how to negotiate with the local signage companies - Tip: they are all thieves!" must be either removed or changed on the website. Any mention of how sign companies are "all thieves" should also be removed from the video tutorial.
Here was his response:
Dear Sir/Madam The comment on the website is absolutely correctly stated. I've worked as a dental management and marketing consultant for over 25 years. I have spoken to over 100 dental groups including the American Dental Association and the Academy of General Dentistry. I have consulted directly on the design, purchase and installation of over 200 dental signs for doctors. Virtually every one of these signage purchases was a struggle to complete with numerous ''unexpected'' costs being added to projects. The line quoted in the complaint comes directly from a personal friend who at one time owned a signage company. He was very clear that it was one of the dirtiest businesses he had ever participated in and sold it off as quickly as possible. He would tell stories of signage company sales people automatically jacking up the quote by 20%-40% as soon as they heard the word ''Doctor''. Every week I send out a newsletter to 30,000 dental subscribers. In it I share my opinion regarding dental marketing strategies. If Mr. Diaz does not like my opinion on the signage industry... that's fine by me. He doesn't have to buy my tutorial or read my newsletter. That is the way it works in this country, check out The First Amendment to the US Constitution. I believe Mr. Diaz is part of a group of signage people who have decided to speak up about my opinion about signage in various forums... that is his right. I respect his opinion; I just don't give it credence. Mr. Diaz has accused me of ''slandering'' his industry. By definition, you cannot slander an industry, only an individual. Please feel free to post this response side by side with the complaint from Mr. Diaz. Jim Du Molin The Wealthy Dentist.com P.S. As a side note, I've probably done more to promote signage in the dental industry than any consultant in recent memory.
Ben, remind me to never pi$$ you off . . . He's right, you can't slander a profession - only an individual. But it did drive home our point . . .
That said, his claim to promote signs forgets one thing . . . he seeks to dominate the signmaker - without due respect for the commerce it brings him . . . Do you hold a gun to your dentists head and demand a lower price?
Right . . .
The blind cannot see . . .
Merry Christmas anyway . . . I'll say a small prayer for a lump of 'coal' in Mr. Dumolin's stocking . . .
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Would anyone expect the guy to say anything different?
From my own POV, the whole matter is a waste of time. As long as I create and maintain a reputation for great service and a great product, who cares what he says. My clients are going to keep me too busy to worry about it.
posted
Ha Ha I didn't know Ben did that. Yeah it may not be slander or libel, however he does have an unfounded prejudice against the entire profession he obviously knows nothing about.
How could he claim: "The comment on the website is absolutely correctly stated" when there is no possible way he has worked with "all" us signmakers in order to reach the conclusion that we are "all crooks".
I tend to avoid someone who will judge an entire group of people based off of only a handful of negative interactions... Negative interactions that may have been the cause of or had more to do with that prejudice person than the entire group of people he or she judges.
So when he says that "virtually every one of these signage purchases was a struggle to complete" You have to wonder if it's actually him that is the problem, and how helpful he is actually being acting as the middle man.
I'm hoping most other people like to avoid folks like that too, and when they come across that part in the descriptions of his tutorials, they save their money.
[ December 21, 2011, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Joseph Diaz ]
-------------------- Joe Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, IL 61764 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 538 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
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Unless someone wants to sell him a website. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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