posted
I had a meeting with a dentist for new signage yesterday. In doing so, I thought I would look online prior to my meeting to see if there were any comments from dentists on what they saw as vital for their sign's copy - or graphics. Didn't figure I'd get much info - but I DID find something . . .
And it ****ed me off. Royally . . .
Read down to the 7th bullet point and see what you think . . .
I sent the guy an email chastising him for his libelous comment . . . Feel free to do the same.
The hypocrisy behind putting up a web page about signs and their REAL importance in a dental business - THEN including that remark was stunning to me . . . and part of the flaw in client-vendor relationships. TRUST is much harder to come by when you have douchebags like this "expert" consulting other dentists in the country . . . and telling them THAT.
We'll see how this d-bag replies to me . . .if he even does.
AAAARRRGGGHHHHHH . . .
All you richass, Mercedes-driving sign business owners please stand up . . . Hey wait, why is everybody sitting?
Thanks for the venting . . . I feel better.
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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If he is all that great a dentist, why is he having to sell books? All the dentists I know are good enough to have a full practice without having to resort to fancy signage to entice patients. This is the type of customer that is told to go somewhere else, I don't have time to deal with the likes of him. What a pompus ass SOB!
-------------------- Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Well, I tried everything from shoplifting to corporate embezzlement and internet scams but when I discovered signs, I knew I was into the real money. Now, I've ripped off enough dentists to cover the publishing of my new best selling book "The Wealthy Signmaker". GET YOURS TODAY! ...and don't forget the 5 FREE bonus gifts....they won't last long at just $247
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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I don't even know if the guy is or was a dentist. He and his wife ("the brains of the organization" according to him - no kidding??) started this industry-specific consulting business . . . and he never mentions his background: http://www.thewealthydentist.com/JimDuMolin-biography.htm
I think he may have been a financial planner . . . but who knows?
Whatever his background, his comments are libelous - and if I had a lwayer for a relative, I'd scare him a bit with a nasty letter and veiled threat if he didn't remove it from the web page. But he'd still be saying as much in his seminars . . . and publications.
I sent him the email nastygram - and our portfolio . . . and dared him to find me a RICH sign shop owner. I bet anything I hear crickets from him and the brain-trust of the Du Molin 'team'.
Funny thing . . . read his comments on his public speaking gigs (funny thing, he seems motivated by money - but denies sign shop owners the right to charge for fair work??):
Things to understand:
1.Jim teaches marketing. He likes to practice what he preaches. 2.When Jim speaks, he generally gives each doctor in the audience from $500 to $750 in free marketing services that can generate new high-value patients for them immediately. 3.Don't ask Jim to reduce his fee. He is not a managed care speaker. 4.Jim only speaks to audiences with a minimum of 100 doctors. 5.Don't ask Jim to speak for free to get "exposure". He has spoken to over 200 dental continuing education organizations. Click here for a partial list. If you want him to expose himself on your organization's stage, he will be happy to oblige... for his normal fee. 6.Jim does not speak for free at charitable events. Jim likes to keep his business separate from his charitable contributions. 7.Jim's fee is the same for a half day presentation as a full day. 8.Jim will normally arrive for the speaking engagement or dental seminar the night before the presentation so that he is well rested and relaxed for his presentation to your continuing education organization. 9.Jim will be happy to attend all group social functions to which he is invited to as part of the event. He will be happy to eat meals and socialize with dental seminar attendees at breaks and before and after the meeting. Jim actually likes dentists.
I have a series of 4 letter words for this creep . . . but I'm afraid he'd charge me to use them against him. Glad I'm not the only one appalled here . . .
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jim has two fee schedules - based on your organization's attitude about dental speakers promoting their products from the stage.
1. For organizations who frown, disapprove of, or discourage speakers from promoting their services or products from the stage, Jim's rate is $10,225 a day.
2. For organizations that will allow speakers to promote their services and products in a tasteful, non-confrontational and mannerly way, the fee is $4,500 a day. This includes a sales table in the back of the room where doctors can view samples and place orders.
******
Now that I know how much he charges, he MUST know what he's talking about . . . <sigh>
What a tool . . .
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Glenn, I'm not totally sure, but at our shop we often talk about our customers as if they were frozen pizzas. But what would you expect from us "thieves".
Now if you won't mind I have a customer that needs to be defrosted. Be back in 20 to 24 minutes depending on the altitude.
[ April 28, 2011, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Joseph Diaz ]
-------------------- Joe Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, IL 61764 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 538 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
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Hey Jay, do you think he would appreciate people "negotiating" his rate? LOL
-------------------- Joe Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, IL 61764 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 538 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
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I've never sold a sign to a dentist yet who wasn't a major PITA to deal with. Usually it's about 8 or 9 design revisions before they make up their frickin' mind on what they want. Total control freaks.
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Brent . . . that's probably due to what this a$$hat preaches . . .!!!
Joe, EXACTAMUNDO . . . He would NOT appreciate people negotiating his rates. How this tool cannot see through his own hypocrisy is astounding.
But THAT is the key to how he needs to promote himself - so excess charges show how the 'game' is played.
What he doesn't realize is that with respect to the sign company and his promotionof negativity, his is NOT a victimless crime. We suffer for his narrowmindedness.
I hope he replies to me . . . I chose purposely to use the word 'libelous' 4 or 5 times. While he didn't attack an individual or company specifically (the true definition of libel is written - slander is oral), he needed to be slapped down and shown his hypocrisy.
I mentioned that signs - when measure by CPM (cost per viewing) is THE least expensive means of advertising . . . thereby factually proving his own ignorance.
"Negotiate the price lower, even though it's the best deal on advertising you'll ever get" is NOT the message he should send. He should be promoting QUALITY work and touting (as he does) the VALUE and IMPORTANCE of signage . . . but niot slam the industry after he does so. Garbage-design signage IS thievery in my book. Quality isn't THAT much more . . . So let him preach that message with our blessing . . .
But don't hate on our profession, buddy . . . Especially when you aren't qualified.
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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geezJay, he sure got your pink knickers in a twist, I'm just mad because he's smart enough to get paid more for talking about signs than we are for making them. I'll check back tommorrow, right now I have to go detail my dentists mercedes, i have kids with braces... hey wait a minute, how come signs are supposed to be cheap but last forever but braces are 6 grand per kid and only last 3 years? ( the braces, not the kids)THEIVES!!!!!!!!
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
posted
Dentist base their business on a customers desperate attempt to improve their looks or assist them in pain removal.We all have experienced this and had no choice but to give in to their pricing.No sign company places their business practice to suggest that you have to buy now to improve your image or except the pain of high prices.Walk into a dentist office after being up all night with a toothache and price doesn't matter and beating these bastards price down is no option..."They Gotcha"
-------------------- Bill Wood Bill Wood, Sign Artist 3628 Ogburn Ave., NE Winston-Salem, NC 27105-3752 336-682-5820 Posts: 397 | From: Winston-Salem, NC | Registered: May 2006
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Learn how to negotiate with the local signage companies - Tip: they are all thieves!
That is truly amazing. Will send him my opinion.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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I only wear the pink stuff at Letterhead and Walldog gigs, Petie . . . but what I am wearing DID get in a bunch.
Kim nailed him on Facebook . . . I'll wait to join in after I see if he replies to my email.
Pompous a$$ . . . (not you, Pete . . .)
And I'm hatin' on Canada right now, Pete . . . The Ca*ucks knocked my Blackhawks out of the hunt for Cup #2 . . . Is there no justice? No repeat? 1961 - 2010 - ??????
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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888-476-4886 is the number to call to complain.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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yah Jay, it must suck when a Canadian team knocks a team of Canadians based in the U.S. out of the playoffs, just like all the canadian players on boston did to Montreal:)
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
posted
I wouldn't link this page to his Facebook page or even let him know we're here . . .
Quit exporting your "products" down here, Pete and we won't need to do that . . . but then only half your hockey players would have jobs. What to do then?
Now the meat, Pete . . . this is HALF our sport, too . . . See the original 6? The Original Six teams Boston Bruins Chicago Blackhawks Detroit Red Wings Montreal Canadiens New York Rangers Toronto Maple Leafs
That's THRE teams from Canad-eh and THREE teams from the U.S. - so how do you claim it as 'your sport' now?
I Facebooked 'The Wealthy Dentist' through my shop page and wrote this:
Your negative remarks labeling sign companies as 'thieves' on your website is offensive to all sign company owners who struggle to make a decent living in a very tough profession.
The comment also comes from someone who charges up to $10,000 per day to speak to dentists about negative issues such as this. That seems a tad bit hypocrit...ical, in our personal opinion. Signs cost less to view than ANY other advertising - so how do you brand those who offer such value to business owners as 'thieves', Mr. Du Molin? Read what the Small Business Administration says about signs: http://www.sbaonline.sba.gov/idc/groups/public/documents/sba_homepage/pub_mt12x.txt
Perhaps a change of text on your website about sign companies would be a proper, professional and appropriate response?
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jay, we'll let you keep Justin Beiber and Celine Dion if we can have the Jets and Nordiques back, on second thought you can have Celine for free if you promise NOT to send her back, and our official sport is Lacrosse, hockey's just a hobby, that's why only 70% of the NHL players are Canadian, imagine if we took it seriously
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
What gets me is this is an profession that charges different rates based on who is paying. Say someone walks in needing a filling with no insurance: Cost $245 (at least)...Someone who has insurance has to pay $45 at the time of the visit, and the insurance company pays them $100 (roughly)...so they charge someone who can't afford insurance at least $100 more than someone that can...now that's a rip off artist.
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein Posts: 746 | From: Ridgely, MD | Registered: Oct 2000
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Pete . . . Time for some horse trading. Celine is out - Vegas has her and that hellhole is perfect. Net zero on that trade. I'm shipping back the Bieber kid (PLEASE SHIP HIM OVERSEAS BABY BABY BABY) and the Jets and Nordiques . . . but you gotta give us Tim Horton's.
My son now plays lacrosse - so no bad words there. And if you play lacrosse like you played volleyball in Boise, well, why don't you just give us that too. And Tim Horton's . . .
With respect to hockey . . . well, I got nothing . . . You win. But who has Lord Stanley's Cup (besides Mrs. Stanley) right now???? That's right . . . MY home state of Illinois. (That's here in the United States)
But you guys mismeasured our football fields when you took that game from us, Pete. Not sure as I haven't watched any C-EH-FL games in some time, but I think yours are still screwed up. Too big . . . Jeez . . .
Donna, come down here and live in the states . . . th-eh don't deserve you up there.
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun" Posts: 1000 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
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If ya really want to git this guy make him have to go to a great extent to get his next sign,....notify all the sign companies in his area(just north of San Francisco) and let our peers see his attitude online,....take tha low life's opportunity to get robbed by theives such as us away,...
[ April 29, 2011, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Around 1998, I accidentally dialed an 800 number wrong...but I listened to the message as it was extremely fascinating. This number was a message and ad for doctors who wanted to get in with the pharmacy, I think it was Rexall or something like that which discontinued their public drug stores and now wanted to market vitamin paks for doctors offices for specialty problems.
You may remember those paks: one for back, one for heart, maybe one for prostrate, one for woman specialty problems and men's problems, etc.
I listened and as the recording played out, it was saying that now people were getting tired of all the drugs and now are demanding vitamin and preventative therapy. This the doctors could get in on and then make it so everything had to go through doctors as they would have the complete market, driving health food stores and storefronts from being able to sell the vitamins.
You probably remember that time period and there were massive petitions by health constituents and aware citizens for the Supreme Court to keep the choice and access for health products in their hands not the doctors only.
This was so interesting but I just stumbled upon this. As a matter of fact, a friend's husband had a doctor who prescribed a few years later the vitamin pak for "backs" and he ended up with heart failure due to this vitamin therapy the doctor never researched, just sold from the pharmaceutical company.
Just goes to show what we haven't seen that goes on behind the scenes and so many unsuspecting individuals succumb to, trusting blindly anybody that has some credentials of an office diploma.
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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For those interested on Jay's topic, here is a website that may shed some light on those interested in going after this moron, who calls us "thieves".
posted
2 weeks ago I paid 350 US for a ten min tooth removal. The thooth was aching so bad I would have paid anything. Those guys schould be under a price regime.
-------------------- Stein Saether GullSkilt AS Trondheim Posts: 1183 | From: Trondheim Norway | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have emailed Carlton Sheets and Dave delDotto to go over and kick his bald headed ass. I also noticed a comment where "He literally made millions" This guy IMO is just another freakin loser that has groups of people pumped into an auditorum gets them all hopped up on success and then spanks their asses as they run out to "tackle the world" and then of course he gets a check.
Lowlife scumbucket
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
quote: Now the meat, Pete . . . this is HALF our sport, too . . . See the original 6? The Original Six teams Boston Bruins Chicago Blackhawks Detroit Red Wings Montreal Canadiens New York Rangers Toronto Maple Leafs
That's THRE teams from Canad-eh and THREE teams from the U.S. - so how do you claim it as 'your sport' now? [Wink]
Jay, which one of these four cities is in Canada? Chicago, Detroit, Boston, or New York City?
Me thinks you need to recheck your atlas...
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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