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So how come they can do all those marvellous techniques on English Pubs like glue chipping and glass carving on exterior windows? I know they do not have the climate diversities quite as severe as we have here, but I know they get snow there so how come their glass doesn't shatter? And are they using tempered glass? I have a customer that I am working on interior glass and they are wondering why it can't be on the outside of the place too. I said I'd get back to them on that.
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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About the only thing I know for sure about that is, it isn't tempered glass. I've been told that the glass has to be glue chipped and carved before installation, or at least that's the preferred method. Doing t vertically is a real challenge. If the glass is thick enough, it should be stable in the weather.
I have now exhausted my limited storehouse of knowledge
-------------------- Kerry H Kerry's Signs Vallejo, CA Posts: 160 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Sep 2006
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Deri, Here, if I do any Commercial, The codes spec. Safety Glass. I use laminated Glass. You can get it in different thicknesses. That way if it breaks it has the Lamination to keep it from shattering. I usually use 1/4 L 1/8=3/8 glass and do my work on the 1/4 side.
Ask you Glass company about it. They make a variable thicknesses.
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most windows are now thermal units, 2 pc of 1/8" glass with a space between, i have done chipping, gilding and etching a few times with no trouble but I always tell customers'no guarantees' Most glass companies won't guarantee thermal units with vinyl , paint or posters taped to them either, it depends on which side of the inside panel the low E coating is on. You can check the church doors next time you're in Bayfield, done about 6 years ago
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
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Yes Kerry I had intended on working on the glass before install. Thanks for the heads up though. Bill, laminated glass, I don't think I have ever heard of it. I will ask my glass guy if he can get some. Thank you.
So the low E coating has to be on the inside correct? And you are working on the outside then Pete? Sorry a little confused. Yes the Church doors are absolutely gorgeous, I have seen them, wonderful work.
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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Changes in the weather do not cause glass to break because the changes are gradual. Glass only breaks from thermal shock when you apply a sudden change to a small area such using a heat gun.
British pubs do not have storm windows or thermal glass. Their windows are the old fashioned single pane type - created before the days of energy efficiency. No thermal panes and no storm windows. I bet that most of the glass is 1/4 inch although the stained glass windows are 1/8 glass.
In these safety conscious days, laminated glass is an excellent idea. If your customers want to preserve the energy efficiency of the window, they can always install a separate storm window. The storm window will make the decorative window much harder to see, so they will have to decide if they want the window to be seen from the inside or the outside of the building.
-------------------- Sarah King - Angel Gilding Supplies 708-383-3340 sarahk@angelgilding.com Posts: 27 | From: Oak Park IL USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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if the low e is on the inside of the inside panel,towards the interior of the building it will be removed with etching and chipping. If it's on the outside of the inside panel, facing the street it will stay intact, problem is i don't know how to tell, some thermal units come to me labelled glaze this side in, and some don't, haven't had any problem but was warned of the possibilities and voiding of the warranty.
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
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I have sent glass (for commercial use) out to be tempered after chipping!
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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I was asking a salesman who came here to try to sell me new front door. I am interested in replacing a couple of the windows in the living room, and was hoping to do some work on them e.g. sandcarving, perhaps a bit of chipping. He told me their company would not warranty. I can understand why. But in this case I think the aesthetic value of the windows for me would override the possibility of no warranty. Does anyone know any companies in Canada that would temper after chipping/sandcarving? Or would perhaps be willing to put the piece between? Or would you bother tempering in residential (my home)? TYIA
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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I wouldn't bother tempering for your house, and most companies that temper etched/carved artglass offer no promise that the glass will survive the treatment, Rick told me the companies he dealt with claimed as high as a 70% breakage rate. For commercial I wouls use laminated, it's like the windshield in your car, the middle layer holds the pieces together for safety if it breaks, you can have the side to be carved 1/4" and the other 1/8" thick if you order that way, so you have enough depth for carving and dimension.
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
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When I was working in Toronto, we used to do our work on laminated glass, then take it to a window company to make into thermal units. I'm sure that Fisher Glass in Goderich could do that for you. I'm sure I asked them about this back in the day, but that was a number of years ago....
There are also some bigger glass companies that can do this for you in London and Toronto if you have the time to take the glass there and pick it up a week or so later.
Laminated Glass is made to order as they need to cut 2 pieces of glass and laminate them together with a film between them for safety. This film is what holds the glass together when it breaks. You cannot cut it after it is laminated.
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