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I also forgot to mention, Dan will get it in both ears if I don't like what I see as a finished result. I personally vow to push him towards excellence!
Will he listen? No idea. But I won't make it easy for him to ignore me if he doesn't.
posted
The last thing I would claim is that this new web website I'm working on is currently anything more than putting information on a website in a form provided. I've tweaked it a little thus far and will continue to do so, eventually perhaps creating something I am happy with.
I like the process so far because it is so flexible and easily updated and tweaked. Even in its current very beginning stage I like it - better than some professionally coded sites I've had in the past.
I present it as an option for those who might want to do something for themselves, if they are just starting out, have limited budgets or want to do it themselves without getting too technical. Guys like Shane obviously can make this format SING! Nice site!
I believe a good looking, well functioning, easy to navigate website is important to each of our businesses. How that is defined will undoubtably differ with whomever we talk to. Ultimately we each have to weigh our specific needs against our available budgets and abilities.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8739 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Sorry I've been slow to respond on this thread. Was out on San Diego servicing a few of our bigger accounts, and thankfully landing a few new ones. Boy, is it nice out there...
I think our philosophy is the site is first and only designed for the target audience, and secondly, establish a level of expectation of the experience in dealing with the firm.
For our redesigned site, we did go very clean, simplified and worked very hard on page layout. Yes, there's still a ton of content on it, which if the viewer wants, can drill down.
The site is still geared for small businesses, but upscaled a bit to try and attract those with the proper budgets to support the level of expertise we provide.
Because of our site's strong SEO, it still pull in roughly 15-20 leads per week. Many are not qualified, however. I'm not certain how to address it without basically saying upfront 'we're not cheap'.
I think there are pros and cons to anyone wanting to build their own site. In general I have not seen many who successfully combine aesthetics, marketing, and SEO into their own designed sites, and I still question the wisdom of trusting your company's most important marketing endeavor to an amateur -if you are one. This is not the place to cut your teeth on learning - because it has the potential to really really hamper your company's efforts to grow. It's like doing surgery on yourself. Sure you'll save a bit of money - but there's a good chance you might bleed to death on the table too. You really want to roll the dice on the health of your company with amateur?
Like I said in my last SC article - spending the 50k on a printer and then cheaping out on marketing yourself to get work for the printer - just doesn't make any sense to me. If any of you haven't read it - its a good read. You can download it here under 2011 tab (http://www.graphicd-signs.com/about-published-works)
Anyway, Dan and I will debate this for another decade or so. It's all good. Passion is what brings out excellence in everyone----
[ February 12, 2011, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Dan Antonelli ]
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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Dan A., what level of content self-management are you able to offer to your customers with your latest websites? I think cost and content management are the two biggest factors that cause hesitation when considering a professional web designer. If the customer is able to self manage the content when the site is active, then the only other factor, which is cost, becomes a relatively minor one time issue, especially when you factor the other advantages into a professional web design. However, if the customer cannot manage their content easily, then for controlling individuals or those that require frequent change, the need to rely on the web designer continually is a nuisance.
-------------------- Gary Boros SIGNWORKS STUDIOS LLC Monroe, Connecticut, USA Posts: 264 | From: Monroe, Connecticut, USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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A lot of people think that content management is so important, but we have only had about 3 or 4 out of about 50 web clients that actually use the CMS on a frequent basis- they either don't have time or they realize they don't have that much content to change. Most of them simply pay us to do the updates.
The web stuff changes really fast- 8 years ago we set out to specialize in Flash driven sites, and got really good at it. We implemented CMS, back-button features, SEO features, XML content, PHP forms, etc. We were building sites that nobody else could, without sacrificing some of the basic features that people expect from basic websites.
In the past couple of years, there has been a shift towards mobile devices, the whole "iPhone -vs- Flash" war and we have had to adjust what we are building. We are still building Flash sites but we have also added WordPress type sites to our arsenal- Pros and Cons to both- on one hand, it allows alot of ease in building the structure, but I really hate the fact that now I'm limited in the creative look and feel. I have absolutely no desire to spend my days as a web coder. I also hate feeling like I have stepped back into 1998 (does anyone remember how awful websites looked?)
So, much like the sign industry, we are having to make decisions on what type of products that we want to produce.
The 2 Dans are debating which is better:- a quickie-stickie vinyl sign cut in someone's basement, or a carved, guilded sign built in a craftsman's shop (only instead of signs, they are websites)-- they both are acceptable ways to make signs, in the right hands they can each look great and fill the needs, in the wrong hands they each could look cheap and unprofessional...
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1736 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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We can offer full content management, or just photo gallery content management, which I think is the right solution for 95% of every client. How often do you really need to change the content on your about us page? We can do full CMS, but the cost doesn't usually outweigh the benefit unless you're going in there pretty regularly to make changes.
Like Michael says - most who have it don't usually use it, unless its something like ecomm. But whether you are a landscaper, contractor or sign guy, I think CMS for photo galleries are a great feature, which doesn't add much to the cost.
In many respects its easier for us to build CMS for galleries, because then we don't have to load all the photos, as well.
"Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies. But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be." - Rush Posts: 1192 | From: Washington, NJ | Registered: Feb 1999
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To me, CMS is a "value added" item. In other words, the customer wants it and I charge for it. Its easy to do and I make a couple hundred bucks extra.
The fun part is when they screw something up via the CMS. They call me to fix it for which I charge them for it. After a while they leave it alone and call me to do the updates which I also charge for.
I do have one client who kept screwing things up royally via the CMS. I finally set the page he was wanting to update on a regular basis to utilize Google Documents. This way he could update the info on the page without actually accessing the CMS. It works for him and no more weekly calls to fix his site.
[ February 13, 2011, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
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So, if you aren't a "programmer" can you use the background of a website (that you have designed) and set up a blog in Wordpress relatively easily?
I have one site that was programmed in Wordpress that I go in and make the changes for the client and don't need to bug my programmer.
I switched programmers and the new one wants to charge an additional $200 to add in the blog.
-------------------- Nikki Goral Image Advantage Signs 4050 Champeau Road New Franken, WI 54229 920-465-4500 "Finish every day and be done with it. Tomorrow is a new day."-Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 928 | From: New Franken, WI (East Green Bay) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Dan A - been admiring several of your 'logos' in the portfolio section of your web page.
Some nice stuff....nice web stuff too.
Funny how each 'firm' exhibits a certain 'style' in web design. Not to say there isn't some great variety, but clicking through Dan A's stuff - I see a generally clean, organized, restrained web design. Well laid out and easy to navigate.
The Diaz's web work is a visual extravaganza. The visual cues really lock you into what the website is all about. I find the Diaz's approach very fascinating. I could spend hours just enjoying their various website portfolio categories.
I like a little 'flash' and 'pizazz' and they do some crazy cool work. Nice to see 'fun' brought into a web experience in addition to the message.
Great work and kudos to you both.
I'd like to see some of Michael's work. Any good links to check out?
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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We tend to change up our website once each year totally... and add content all the time as new projects are completed in our shop. I also add to my blog at least two - three times each week. Even with a local web guy it ran into thousands of dollars per year and although he did a good job I was at his mercy as to when he could get at it and what he would charge. Each time I designed the changes I would inevitably think of something new right after. As we all know changes cost money and rightly so. But it needed to be cost effective. In short the old model simply wasn't working for us.
The flip side was the current model or something like it... somewhat plainer because of my (currently) limited web skills but instantly adaptable to whatever I wanted or needed or figure out in the future. Additions are dead easy and over time I will get to what I want in terms of design.
I want the entire focus to be on our work so there won't be any bells and whistles - and few click-throughs. Simple and straightforward is key for us.
In studying the analytics of our sites over the last year it seems to me that people generally only stay on our site four minutes on average and generally click through four-six pages no matter how complex or simple our site is.
Last year our website was 90 pages... now merely 11 with only our very best work displayed. Feedback I have received thus far from our customers has been very favorable. We have garnered work from the site and they have been good jobs - exactly the kind of work we were seeking. And my cost to put the site together has been only a few hours. THAT is winning a formula in my book.
A simple but effective website that shows our work is better by far than a fancy one that doesn't work, annoys or distracts our customers with gimmicks.
And it is certainly better to do a web site in this fashion than to not get to it at all for whatever reason.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8739 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Dan Sawatzky: simple but effective website that shows our work is better by far than a fancy one that doesn't work, annoys or distracts our customers with gimmicks.
I have to agree. I would rather see a bland design with great content than a fancy design with the content obscured.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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