posted
I was sent some papers from a local town wanting me to quote making a carved goldleaf sign to match an existing one. Nothing fancy. 2 years ago I made the town the same type sign, but didn't have all the restictions memtioned as they do this time. They want ME. to give them a certified $5000 check with the quote. Along with copies of employee paychecks , so they can see that I am paying wages that are up to par with the state pay scale requirements.
First of all, $5000 is probably more than what the sign will cost them. Why should I pay them? Normally I get a 50% deposit to cover at least my materials cost.
Second, I generally work by myself, and occasionally have my son help me with the installs, for pay of course.
Thirdly, I don't think their sign construction requirements will hold up. They want it to be single sided 3/4" HDU, carved. To be mounted on an aluminum frame. A couple of years ago, I they had a sign like that that lasted about 1 1/2 years before it split apart. The inside. was hollow. From the outside, it looked like it was 1 1/2" thick. I always back my HDU signs with. 3/4" mdo. Double sided signs, I make 2- 1" thick HDU and epoxy them to 3/4" Mdo, I have 2 sided carved hdu signs out there for 12-15 years, and no failures. I am going to no bid this. I am not playing banker.
Diane
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1695 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Diane, Is the check a form of "bond" that they would only cash if you don't finish the job, or run off with their deposit? That would be my guess.
As far as the specs: Bid it as requested so they get an apples to apples bid. They probably need 3 bids to choose from, After bidding it their way, also bid it with the proper specs so they realize that they may not actually want what they asked for.
Of course, as soon as you offer the optional quote, expect them to put THAT out for bid - so don't get TOO involved in that quote. Absolutely NO sketches or anything that would take your time and skills. Just a ballpark quote at this point in the venture.
Good luck.
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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I received an invitation last week to be considered for a project in the next year in a neighboring municipality. It was a juried process with the first stage an application of nine pages. They required the references and a good sized selection of portfolio work. And they wanted eight copies of everything.
The first stage had an opening date of seven days. The entries would be juried down to a smaller field which would be invited in for an hour presentation/question period. If the subjects passed the muster they would be further juried down to a select few who could bid on projects.
At that point I suspect a process like the above which Diane describes would kick in.
I decided I had better things to do.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Part of the paperwork includes a sketch of the design, photos of 3 similar type signs and 3 references. They will not give a deposit, but will issue a voucher number and pay the next payment distribution AFTER the project is completed. Tbey told me it is illegal for them to issue deposits.(they said it is a State law- which I don't believe . Another bordering town had no problem giving me a deposit). A few months ago, I had considered making the sign at cost. I will pass on this one mainly because of the $5k.
Diane
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1695 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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Ontario is undoubtedly different than NY, but municipalities here will issue a Purchase Order instead of a deposit. A PO# from a municipality is as good as cash ...... you WILL get paid. In one instance, where there were very substantial up-front material costs, they paid those directly to the supplier. Gene is likely correct ..... this would be a performance bond & it would be held until the job is completed to their satisfaction. If you're unhappy with the specs, don't bid. An e-mail to the mayor & other town administrators explaining why you'll not be bidding on this can't hurt.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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I can't imagine paying $5000.00 upfront to provide a sign. I have a $5000.00 bond that I must update every year in order to be licensed to install signs in our county. The bond costs $100 per year. I would not provide a sketch for free either. We recenly completed a $3,000. sign for a local utility company. By the time the job was completed we spent almost as much time on "compliance" as we did making the sign. That may be a bit of an exagerration but the point is companies are so afraid of getting sued nowadays they want to make sure all their bases are covered.Next time I bid on a government job I will add time for paperwork costs. (But then I'll probably be too high priced)
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1266 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Suggest to them that you will be contacting the attorney generals office. (inreference to the deposit issue) See how they react to that. Make them write the law for you first... And suggest you will contact legal services also to make discovery on laws Vs' rules.
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Somebody pushed the handle and this country is swirling around and it is going down the tubes!!! Small business is about to disappear!
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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