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I'm kinda in a quandry about brush cleaning.Over the years, on this site and others, many different ideas and tips on brush care and cleaning have appeared. This has ranged from keeping several cans of "staged" thinners (various stages of funky), from dirty to clean; and cleaning brushes in each to get them clean. Then up to using ultrasonic cleaners, and One Shot Brush Cleaner and Conditioner.....and on and on....
One thing that has pretty much remained a "no-no" in cleaning brushes is the use of lacquer thinner.
Other day, I'm cruising videos, trying to pick up a few pointers, and came upon some by Steve Kafka, demonstrating striping techniques and showing off some new brushes. All thru the demo, he does some work, then cleans them in lacquer thinner, then in mineral spirits, and sets them aside. Is this not taboo?? I'm corn-fused.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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Dale, like you, I was taught that cleaning brushes in lacquer thinner was a no no, that it would ruin a brush quickly. We changed over from enamels to urethane's seven years ago. We've been washing out brushes in lacquer thinner since. To be perfectly honest, I haven't seen one bit of difference. Some brushes last seemingly forever, some die after a good length of time and some crap out pretty early...just like the days of enamel and mineral spirits. I've also heard many times that urethane's ruin brushes...sorry, just not true.
I've come to the conclusion that there are a number of "old wives tales" that are out there that just get repeated, without any first hand knowledge whatsoever....."adding stop leak to an automobile will cause the heater core to get stopped up"....."you have to add hardner to your lettering enamel if you are going to clear over it"......"urethane's will ruin your brushes"... at the risk of sounding like Penn Gillette.......Bull Shyt!!!!
Oh, and a little tip concerning lacquer thinner. If you have a brush that has slid around in your kit and it's taken a bent set. Wash it out in lacquer thinner, shake it out a little, then while still wet stroke and shape it like you want it. Keep shaping it until it's almost dry, set it down to dry. It will dry somewhat stiff, wash it out after it dires and it will be good as new. Might have to do it a couple of times but I've straightened out some real boomarangs.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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I have never seen lac thin do any harm to brushes, but do use a stage system of five or six small cans of min spts to clean out brushes. I keep them fairly clean and daily recucle the juice. Whenever I am not going to use a particular brush very often, I do use Dextron ATF to soak it in as it has some detergent in it, but only for the rarly used ones (some smaller quills and 1/2" flats). I use 3/4" and 1" flats the most and these stay in the metal pencil box, laid flat and perpetually kept moist with min spts. The #28 blue Luco quills are now 15 years old and they seem to hold up absolutely fine, as long as they are kept very clean.
Sometimes when I get a Nocturna that is beginning to split tail, I run a small wire brush through it by holding the wet brush against a flat surface and pulling the brush back to me. I do this maybe ten times and it does seem to postpone the inevitable. I am still stumped why some Nocturnas split tail much faster than some others the same size? I generally have four or five in various stages of daily use, so I date them by scribing onto the ferrel the date, so I can tell how old it is. Six months is usually the norm, but some last much longer and some fail in a couple of months. WHY?
I know Joey has some definite opinions on this topic, so I will await his scholarly expertise in this thread. Help us out, Joey! ...again. Yeah, I know that ATF os supposed to be bad stuff, but I have not seen any problems and they do seem to stay more spunky with it for the seldom used ones.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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BTW...I am using mostly Poster Enamel/Fluoro Enamel and changing colors alot any day with these. I might clean 5 brushes every hour, if I am doing windshields or showrooms. I think Lettering enamel is a little different as it seems to have more oil in it? Seems like with Lettering, you have to really watch it closer. Poster never really sets up in the brushes as bad and does seem to rince out easier, but of course is a totally different paint for permanence.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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Does anyone use petroleum jelly/vaseline to palette the brushes into & then store them all 'gooed up' with that stuff like I was taught ages ago? Striping brushes are then 'glued' or pushed down with the vaseline onto a flat surface like a bit of acrylic or aluminium to keep the bristles in order.
Does anyone use the 1-shot brush oil that looks a bit like parrafin or baby oil?
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I also was taught to not use lacquer thinner to clean my brushes and like the rest of you guys I use i regularly to clean them,...Once I asked an individual whom I considered an authority on the issue of brushes as to why I shouldn't use the harsher solvents to clean my quills and i was given the answer that it might dissolve the glue holding the bound hair cup and make the brush start shedding prematurely. I have rarely found this to be the case with quills but with other art brushes it can be an issue.as long as you don' let your brushes soak in the lacquer thinner for long periods of time it isn't a problem,.... Now if I could just get my hands on the genius(or er idiot) that decided to use plastic handles with rubber grips on art brushes to make them more appealing to the housewife hobbyists,....ever have a brush handle dissolve into goo??????
edited to add I often use a square quart thinner can cut in half to make a tray with about an inch of normal mineral spirits to soak my brushes while they are in use during the day to keep them from drying, thus making any cleaning at he end of a project much easier,...it works great once you get in the habit of putting your brushes down in the tray,instead of all over the shop when interrupted,...,
[ November 15, 2010, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have been washing my brushes in lacquer thinner since 1957, after washing spin out any liquid left, dip in motor oil and work it into the heal, lay flat in kit or tray.
I have brushes over twenty five years of service and still in perfect condition, still in use every day, quills, liners, flats and stripers.
Wash good early and you will never need ultrasonic cleaner equipment.
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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I always used lacquer thinner and then dipped in spirits or lite oil. Hell I just hope I last as long as my brushes.Facing an MRI to hopefully find what the Radial CT missed.
-------------------- Darcy Baker Darcy's Signs Eureka Springs. AR. Posts: 1169 | From: Eureka Springs, AR | Registered: Nov 2007
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Len, what is ultrasonic cleaner equipment? like, ahh, ahh, doh!! solvent?
I never clean my brushes, my UltraSonic does it for me and cleans most of my other tools as well. Even Jay Leno uses a big UltraSonic cleaner in his restoration shop. Why spend time drying out your hands with lacquer thinner when you can have non wrinkled skin and ya hands always look good
I have found that when persons spin their brushes in lacquer thinner it makes themselves lose their hair, just look at Len and Jon, proof enough
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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I can get in line with the more mature (not old) sign painters. Going back to 1948, lacquer thinner has been the way to go and dipping them in Old English furniture polish lemon oil to keep them soft and easy to get ready to work again by a quick rinse in lacquer thinner. Once made the mistake of listening to some one who suggested using Neetsfoot oil. The brushed hardened in a short time. Bill
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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So I guess, like most everything else, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
Many moons ago, one of my old mentor/buddies used to have lots of old lettering brushes, hanging (oiled and wrapped in what appeared to be brown paper bag paper) with rubber bands around them. He'd drilled the handles and hung them from a wire (in a jar). Said he'd had them for years...
Following his guidance, I've used lacquer thinner and/or mineral spirits to clean brushes; then dipped them in automatic trans fluid (working the fluid into the ferrule) and either stored them like that; or in some cases, work petroleum jelly into them, form them into the shape I want; then lay them in the box. I did stop using lacquer thinner for cleaning (following some comments here), and the ATF pretty much dissolves anything that might be left in the bristles anyway.
I've got some brushes that are over 20 years old, and haven't had much of any trouble because of the way I treat them. I do, however, believe that brushes (like Kafka's) with metal ferrules, tend to lose bristles faster than ones with plastic or no (Mack stripers) ferrules. Maybe the metal "cuts" moreso than the other materials.
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My techniques were developed after years striping on the show circuit and rapid color changes. I recommend non-automotive lacquer thinner ,it's not as hot ,and the mineral spirits found in national chains.My brush oil is 15 degree neatsfoot,no wax or acids it's natural,no petroleum as there is no petroleum in hair.The demonstration which showed me lay the brush down after cleaning without oiling was because I would use the brush again in additional demos. All of my brushes contain synthetic blends and natural hairs to achieve that certain level of control.
-------------------- Steve Kafka 10443 N. Cave Creek Rd. Suite 101 Phoenix, AZ 85020 Posts: 1 | From: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Sep 2009
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I use the 3 can method with gasoline in them ... spin dry, then work in some mineral oil from the drug store. I then put the clean, oiled brushes in a brush box . My boxes are similar to"
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