posted June 30, 2010 11:18 PM
Bit of a rant here - just got back from a company whose trucks I've done for 18 years (and they all still look good) The company was bought and the name changed, so they called me for the transition graphics. Other than management, the employees and the operation are unchanged. I explained that removal of existing relective vinyl lettering would have to be on an hourly basis because different trucks would take an unknown amount of time - that didn't sit well with the bean counters and they now want a bid process. I tried to explain that all the trucks have different configurations and it's nearly impossible to price a "one-size-fits-all" situation.
All of this seems ridiculous to me, especially considering the above-and-beyond service I've provided over the years (tight deadlines, killer weather, Little League freebie banners, etc.)
Is there any loyalty left in this biz?
btw, I'm only bitchin' for generic necessity (some sort of personality disorder - we can't all be Sawatsky) Life is actually fantastic compared to a year ago...........
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted June 30, 2010 11:29 PM
Loyalty is a thing of the past.. How much? How fast? How come? Is the norm now.. I'm glad I kept my day job.. People suck...
-------------------- Gonzalo Curiel Peewee Signs & designs Oroville Ca 95965
posted June 30, 2010 11:52 PM
Looks like things are getting better but every one is having to cut corners every way possible just to keep their noses above water these days,..don't let it get ya down bro,....it's tha same all over,...ya just gotta take it in stride and don't let them push yer buttons,..
[ June 30, 2010, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted July 01, 2010 12:43 AM
Si, maybe they deserve it, but I'm trying to save an 18 year relationship - also one of my best and most consistent cutomers. We'll give 'em Superfrog's 3-tier pricing combo and make some lemonade from lemons.........
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted July 01, 2010 01:05 AM
I think I got the personality disorder... but I like being me and I LOVE being happy all the time.
Now that we are busy again I'm even happier than ever!
Living the dream in Yarrow...
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted July 01, 2010 01:45 AM
I am amazed at my clients' loyalties after 21 years. Whenever I get a new decision maker at one old time client, I tread carefully and always try my best to avoid discussions of price, but moreover, about reliability and quality of service. One size does not fit all and I see that most who pitch a 'mean deal' game, only do it at first and then see the value in my service. I make it back in fifths. 20% increases over time....20% of how much I had to give in a break to the newbie.
I had one guy who always hounded me over price for years and years. He was at the same Chrysler store for 15 years and made me squirm every three or four months to get his showroom windows painted. I got him on volume and scheduled him in on my time. He finally bit the dust as Chrysler closed the point last year. He is now a notch down the food chain at a Nissan store where I know the head manager very well. He called me last week and begged my appearance. I went over his head, did the job, sent my normal bill to his boss and thanked my old challenger for the business. I even surprised him as I did the project on his day off, then reminded him that he should remember to call me next time he is job shopping as I really do know many car dogs, as they are my main clients and sometimes know who is looking and who is not. I never let him know that I had always resented his infuriating dealing with me in the past and act like it is just part of the business. Little does he know that as he descends down the management ladder as he is getting older, that my experience keeps building and I remain the arbiter of my own fate. He will end up as a salesman in a few years somewhere and just another has been. This type really is a rarity. Most guys realize you have to pay for talent and skills and to let a professional do what he does best. Aren't we all so lucky to be the creators of our own fates.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted July 01, 2010 09:21 AM
Sonny...I feel your pain. It seems to be happening more and more.
A realtor customer of over 25 years recently went with someone else because they were cheaper.
Our largest client threatened to go somewhere else recently when I didn't return a phone call. Later it was discovered that the alleged phone call had never happened - they forgot to call.
We are fortunate to have some very good, reliable customers that have been around for years. A few have left, only to return when the "great deal" didn't turn out very well...or the other person went out of business.
All in all, we have little to complain about. I'm not anywhere near the Sowhatshisname attitude, but I'm trying.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted July 01, 2010 09:59 AM
Sonny, I don't know if you have talked to them again about the pricing, but I would think you could price it as the worse-case scenario possible. I would figure out which size would take the longest and use that price for all the jobs. That way you'll be getting what the most difficult job is worth and making better time on the easier ones for the same price.
They really don't care about how long it takes. Tell them that you averaged out what you thought would be a fair price as a group discount.
I would think any company would appreciate a deal because of the quanity. They really don't want to shop around since they have been satisfied with your work over the years.
It's a shame we have to do this with long-time customers, but it may also mean you are going to get a better customer soon. Stay positive and don't let your brush dry out!
Sign-cerely, Steve
-------------------- Steve Luck Sign Magic Inc. 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 (618)466-9120 signmagic@sbcglobal.net Posts: 870 | From: 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted July 01, 2010 10:02 AM
My wife continues to remind me of the lack of loyalty in the business world in general. Big business attitude has permeated the ma & pa clients I love to do business with.
Although I continue to patronize my clients and local merchants, my wife is usually a price shopper. I'll just never get used to it. Gotta love the Walmart mentality
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted July 01, 2010 10:20 AM
The way of doing business, like everything else in life, is constantly changing and not always for the better. We have to adapt, loose or change customers or just put up with the crap. Handshake deals are pretty much a thing of the past as is loyalty. We have lost some really nice accounts because of management changes and accompanying attitudes. Give it your best shot. Sometimes though, there just isn't anything you can do. I can relate and do feel your pain.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted July 01, 2010 10:31 AM
Loyalty?? Hahahahaha..... I'm pretty sure they removed that from Webster's Dictionary and placed it on the endangered species list of human virtues.
I too - feel your pain Sonny. There's a few good loyal customers out there, but it's thinning out.
George is right - adaptation and looking for a new angle and 'hook' seems to be the answer - - but ya gotta be careful that you don't devalue your own ethical and personal standards along the way.
It's a short walk to becoming 'one of them.'
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted July 01, 2010 10:57 AM
Okay back to the subject. if they really need a price, just give them one. If you are the one who did the lettering before, then you should have a petty good idea of how long the job will take. How long per truck? 1 hour on some, 1/2 hour on another. So you'd figure 45 minutes per truck plus materials, and lunch. Better to give it a try then to completly lose the job. Gotta remember the quote, "It's not personal, it's business"
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted July 01, 2010 02:30 PM
we routinely have been stipping the police cars after they are rotated out of service, we also get to letter the new ones coming in.
sonny, I know what you are are up against and i have lost a many job on the the hourly wage issue on stripping vehicles. but also i understand the pride that you have in maintaining a long term customer. maybe seporate the removal and the graphics pricing and let the body shop remove.
on the police department, i bid on it 3 years in a row and was always told to much...but they tried there hourly wage county workers do it and ...wow what a mess they had. and other sign companies/body shops who bid lower than me found out the reality of removing reflective vinyl, they are not doing it any more. they finally came back to me and service and quality work wins out in the end.
i have to say that i have learned a way to get the graphic/silver/adhesive off with out all the mess of adhesive romover using masking tape...when i get a minute i will post a how to on it. you will be suprized at how well it works...i use it as well removeing adhesive from vehicle from regular viny as well.
we are starting to evauate the jobs that come through the shop and the profit margins. The lower profit jobs we do not fight so hard for them. i am not saying that we are not going after them but do not budge on or pricing because the guy down the street is doing it cheeper. i think that loyality still is important and we give it to our customer but do not always "expect" it in return. i was burned by the car Lot industry and we did all the lot in a 50mile radius, doing the windsheilds and show room windows. In one month we lost 60% of our business(that is how much we did)to some one who came in and cut our prices in half...it took me 12 years to build up that client base. talk about getting your feeling and pocket book hurt! that will never happen again.
keep the faith brother!
Lovelady
-------------------- "We have been making house calls since 1992"
Chris Lovelady Vital Signs
NOW WITH 2 LOCATIONS! Tallahassee, Florida Thomasville, Ga.
posted July 02, 2010 02:55 AM
It must be just an ignorant hair day on their part. Doesn't it feel like someone just pulled the rug out from underneath you?
I get it on this end too. Just taking a break from signs to heal my back the last two years I get customers seeking me out that want me to do signs and they can't believe I am taking that break. It's been since 1981, and this girl needed a rest, not that I am going away from signs ever, though. Just slowed down!
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted July 02, 2010 11:54 PM
There is a solution to this and it's an easy one.
Removing the old graphics simply costs you too much money if YOU are the one doing the labor. You have better things to spend your time on. Design and Production is skilled labor, Removal is not, and it's not worth shop rate.
Find one or two hard workers, temp agency, family, friends of clients/acquaintances, etc. that would love to have some quick work and teach them how to do the job. It's not rocket science.
You can pay the labor a decent rate for their time, charge the client less than shop rate but still enough to make money on the labor, all the while you get to keep focused on producing that job as well as other jobs.
Get a contract from the client and determine a rigid schedule, X vehicles in Y time frame, so you know exactly how long you need the additional labor.
You can pump this out in no time with labor help and very little personal involvement yourself, freeing you up to make even more money with other stuff, while you're making money with this change-over client.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted July 03, 2010 03:16 AM
Customer Loyalty???? That has to be shortest "oxymoron" today.....
Mike, good approach, one I'd entertain if in that position, regardless, my job is to provide an income, any positive motion in that direction is a good technique and one I'd practice...
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 03, 2010 09:42 AM
It's kind of ironic Frank. In the past I would shy away from the temp labor idea, simply because it seemed too much hassle to train someone that's not going to hang around a while, and it didn't seem fair to the person to not have much work for them.
Now I'm working at a company that has at least 80 employees, and we still make heavy use of temp labor through a labor agency. The temp folks we get are temps because they *like* being temp. The ones that are looking for regular work have that option as well, we can hire them once they've been with us for 90 days through the agency. By this point they know if they like the company's "culture" (we ain't got none hahaha) and we know if they've proven to be reliable, solid workers.
It's changed my view on the temporary help idea. Some people prefer short term or part time work for whatever reason - I mean aside from those that will work just enough solely for beer or drug money - some people do have legit circumstances, family situations, plans for relocation but still needing income until then, etc. Plus, we've found some really good people through the agency. If we don't have regular work for them at least we still have the option of requesting them by name when we do need them next time, and we always have the option of hiring them onto our own payroll after 90 days if a position opens up.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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People suck...
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