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A friend of mine told me he had just opened a little computer repair shop, so I dropped by to take a look.
He's on a shoestring budget, and it really shows. The lettering on the windows wasn't very inviting from the street. I asked if he would let me experiment with window painting, and he agreed.
I have wanted to try window splashes for a long time. Even offering to do work for free I haven't had any takers until now. Here is what I came up with:
It was fun to do, but took longer than I expected. There is going to be more copy below what I did, but it was getting late and I didn't have time to finish.
I'm not sure why the blue is so dull. Everything else shows up fine.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Looks Great Russ! Did you make a paper pattern and tape it on the inside of the window to follow? The lettering really pops. What kind of paint did you use? I too have always wanted to try a window splash so let us know your procedures. How long did it really take you? How would you charge for that if it was a paying customer? Just curious.
Sign-cerely, Steve
-------------------- Steve Luck Sign Magic Inc. 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 (618)466-9120 signmagic@sbcglobal.net Posts: 870 | From: 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 | Registered: Dec 2004
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I will make sure to do sketches on graph paper next time. My original sketch wasn't quite the same aspect ratio as the window (stupid!), so it took time to figure out how to lay it out. You can see my makeshift attempt to map it to the window, with inches marked down the sides, and the top divided by feet. A paper pattern would have been nice, but I was too far away to make it feasible to take my drawing home, vector it, plot it on butcher paper, and bring it back. I have an opaque projector that would have worked great, but I didn't have it with me, nor my roll of paper.
The second problem I ran into was seeing the white stabilo marks on the window. I could see them at the top, but not as well where the cream-colored office partition is behind the window. I had to view it from below instead of straight-on to see my lines. I also didn't bring a big ruler, or any string to help me keep long lines straight.
Once the letters were drawn with the stabilo, I started to block them in with flat white paint, Behr I think. I started out with a roller, but found it hard to control. It was probably more to do with user error than a problem with the tool, but it would have been nice to have a smaller roller with a denser foam. So, I switched to a 3/4" Mack 2962 brush. I had a lot more control, but it was a lot slower. The paint was dragging badly. I probably should have thinned it a bit, but I didn't bring any cups to work out of (poor planning), and I didn't want to thin the whole can). In retrospect, I should have dropped what I was doing, run to the store for some supplies and come back.
Once the white was on, I brushed on the color. Again, the paint was dragging because it was drying too fast. It seemed to take forever to cover the white with the color, and it was hard to keep the coverage even. The yellow and orange were done with Rich Art paints. They are water-based and really easy to clean up.
I hadn't noticed that the Day Glo paints are solvent-based until it came time to use them. I hadn't brought minerals spirits with me (poor planning) so I wouldn't be able to use my brushes. I got out my roller again and rolled on the green and the blue (threw away the rollers). That went much faster and it was easier to control the coverage. No more brushes for color next time.
After the color, I started outlining the letters and adding the drop shadows. That went well. I had to clean my brush a lot because the paint would build up pretty quickly. I either need to thin the paint or add some sort of flow agent to it. The same was true with the with the final white outline. The paint just wants to dry too fast.
It took me about 6 hours to get the window to its current state. If I knew what I was doing, I think I could do it in half the time, or even less.
I'm not sure what I would charge. Maybe someone who does windows could give us an idea. I did it in trade for an old Dell PC that my friend had. It's faster than my current machine.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Looks great Russ. I'm in the same boat as you. Never had anyone ask for it but I wouldn't mind trying it.
I don't know if this would work with the paint you are using, but it would be worth a try as an experiment at your shop before you go out into the field. I saw Super Frog do this with latex paint. Whenever his brush started dragging from the paint drying out, he'd pull out his sample size Rapid Tac and give the brush a quick shot. Loosened the paint right up so he could continue. It looked like it had the same effect as a little paint thinner on One Shot.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Looking Good! You'd never know it was your first try. I hope it brings home lots more of the same.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Big improvement for sure! Not that I'm an expert or anything, but it looks great. Sounds like it was a little frustrating, but hope there was some fun in it. Maybe it will lead to more of this kind of thing, now that you've gotten some practice.
And yeah, I REALLY hope you can fix "accessories"!
-------------------- Marge Cameron Cameron Arts, Inc. Posts: 56 | From: Salem, Ohio | Registered: Jun 2009
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Sounds like you've got a good handle on the basics Russ. Try a yellow stabillo instead of white. I rarely made any patterns when I was doing splashes. Most times I didn't even know what was going on the window until I arrived to do the job. The main exception to that was for fast food outlets. Could be the same message going up at all the locations but the windows were different at every location. After a while you get pretty good at "seat of your pants" designing.
For paints I used a high hide latex primer for base coats. I wasn't brand specific as long as it was white. For colors all I could get around this area was One Shot Fluorescents. I outlined with One Shot Poster black and white. I liked the poster colors because you can thin as needed depending on the weather and I could use all my old favorite lettering brushes.
I did base and color coats with small 3" rollers. I'd put the rollers in ziplock sandwich bags after use and they would last for weeks before drying out. The only brushwork was outlining and secondary lettering.
A job that size would have been about an hour and a half tops and a lot of that time would have been waiting for paint to dry.Price would have run about $150.00.
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Good advice so far ... but I have always used latex based paints.
Base is always a high hiding white flat wall paint. Colors are usually DayGlo brand latex ... all applied with a 3 inch short nap roller. Some slashers like the foam rollers and brushes ... I do not! Brushes ... I like the Nocturna line ... works well with water based paints.
For outline and shades ... a good latex black sash and trim paint with a dollop of black tinting colors and a squirt of FloTrol.
For some reason ... the blues don't "pop" like all the other colors. So I seldom use it. Carry along a 5 gallon pail 1/2 full of water ... toss the rollers into it when done with them, same for the brushes ... rinse them out when you get back and you can reuse them again.
On a warm dry day ... that job would take me about half an hour:
Imagine the layout in your head, use ordinary school chalk to lay out approximately where the letters will be ... and lay on white with the roller, then when dry, the colors, then outline and shade.
Remember ... splashes are meant to be "loose" ... so have fun doing them!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8827 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Nice job. I know this one was for a friend but If you get calls for other work. I start with one fluorescent color for my base price. Additional charges for multi colors like your window. Day Glo is excellent. I've never cared for Richart Window Paint.
-------------------- Kevin Mann SignMann Sacramento, Ca Posts: 80 | From: sacramento california | Registered: Jan 2007
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-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Looks awesome to me Russ!! Fantastic job, and a great upgrade for your friend. Adds a major degree of professionalism verses the 'before' pic without a doubt.
You may just pick up a bunch more work from this exercise.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Great job!!!! It's been years since I did any splash work. Si is right about the blue lacking pop. The Rich Art.... I bought some , tried it and immediately trashed it, just didn't pull far or cover worth a flip. Like Lawrence, I used the One Shot poster.
I hope Craig Sjoquist chimes in on this topic. He uses some sortt of white vinyl, applies it to the widow, does the layout, cuts away and removes evrything but the letters. Sounds like a great way to do these. Bound to be faster as there is no drying time and removal has GOT to be easier. ( on a side note, I'll never forget my first window splah. I didn't have any white latex so what the heck, Kilz primer is white and it dries fast. It took three times longer to remove that job than it did to paint it. )
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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I use SWP Exterior White flat superpaint as a base with a 3"roller. I snap top and bottom lines and just 'think out' the roller widths ratio to the overall width of the line. 27 inch wide area...3 letters = 9 inch letters, or three rollers wide. It is easier on bigger windows.
I use Day Glo oil enamel. I buy gallons of yellow and red and mix my own oranges and pinks. Poster ultra blue and with some fluoro yellow makes a good green. I use Poster black and white for outlines. The 3 inch rollers come in boxes of 24 for 75 cents each and I do not try to 'overnight' them. I also freehand with nine inch similar short nap foam rollers. For outlines, I use nocturnas and wash the brushes out in five different min spts cans that I keep refreshed. I lay the brushes flat in a metal brush box and pour in some extra min spts into the metal box at the end of the day to keep them wet. For some of the rarely used smalled quills and nocs I rub in some tranny fluid and wash out thoroughly, before use.
I design most everything on corel draw first and simply take with me a wireframe divided into ten or five sections to the jobsite, depending on how big it is. I might make some grease pencil marks at where the letters need to end, but never pencil in the letters (too much work). W's and M's are usually 1.5 spaces wide and the I's are halfs. The rest are one space wide. 100 inches and five letters=20 inch wide units.
For clear coating when the sign will be up a while in the direct sun, I use polyclear waterbased clear urethane flat that I roll on. Home Depot $45 a gallon. I charge and extra 50-150 for the clear coat. It doubles the life.
Most of my signs are big. I rarely do a 'one small window' deal anymore. 50-100 feet of windows is my regular size that takes me usually three hours to do. These run anywhere from $750-1500 depending on complexity, how the thing breaks up, the presence of nefarious sticker bushes, if the customer is civil and how fast I will get paid. Most of my clients are major car dealers and they are professional negotiators, so it does require some finness in dealing with them (not to mention humiliating rejections!). These are my major client base, although I am always trying to nab another round with a fast fooder or a bank/drugstore/etc. chain. The chains are where you make the best dough. I charge chains generally $450-650 a store and they pay roughly $3,000 a day, when I get up to speed. I buy a new truck with a hard tonneau every couple of years and work out of the back. Gotta have something dead reliable when I get the jobs way outside my market. I have been all over the states doing this for 21 years. It is always a challenge selling it and at least one third of my time is spent on just marketing and cold calling. There are very few of us left out here doing it and most are over 50, with no one young coming up behind us. I guess hand lettering is no longer considered important to learn with computers.
Am working on several large campaign pitches right now. so if you want to participate, send me some examples of your work and I will pass it along to the next big chain campaign. These work where we see what is painted and have to produce similar work with pics sent in on a daily basis. Real easy, if you can figure out how to do the work and get there on time. The pace is usually brutal, though. Big money, but truly brutal.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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Nice job Russ.....Looks like I made that sketch! You get real fast if you use rollers for all the letters and panels. The sketch only needs to be loose too. The quick sketch is used mostly to check that everything will fit where it's suppose to. Just roughly mark the windows and let the roller do the work. It doesn't matter what the inside looks like.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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John, you are so right. Let the roller do the work.
Now FOAMIES! The small lettering and outlining. I can spot a newbie real fast by the use of foamies. Hate the look! Gotta break out the flats and quills to be a sign painter IMHO. The foamies are expensive and leave a look. Don't get me wrong, Dawad uses foamies and he is fantastic, but I still like the flat/quill look.
It was all over LA in the late 80s and developed into a look. Back then you would see it everywhere. I went there then and shot many pics of the look and came back her to try to emulate it. It took off well in the early 90s and the fast fooders went nuts with it for a while, until someone sold them cling on stockers (which pale in effectiveness). I actually had one major chain test the two: Window painting in fluoro compared to stickers...108% increase in traffic over stickers! 1000 store test. Duh. The problem is that the chains want to roll out a major campaign all over and these are just way too few of us left out here. That is why I am trying to get some association of Splashers together. Keep the quality up and exchange info freely between us all. I still need some more out here doing it who love to paint fast and love doing week long roadtrips. These campaigns really are fun to do and do pay extremely well. The last one made me $38k in 2.5 weeks! ...Duh.
The car dogs really are a hard lot to sell to. I used to GM a Chevy store, so I still speak car dog pretty well. Walk into one of them with your picture book and you will be amazed how fast they can dismiss you and make you feel like a moron. "Do you haver an appointment" (impossible to get). "Which other dealers do you do?" Hard to get the first ones. "Yeah, leave your card and Mr. Big will call you, maybe never". The car dogs are very tricky to get in on. They do pay their bills, however and once you get loyalty, they will stick with you. Gotta keep calling on them, though.
Enough of my ranting about this. Gotta get some wotk done!
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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I really appreciate all the comments. Of course it's embarrassing to know that I'm so slow, but I'm inexperienced, and I know I can get a lot faster. I doubt I could ever do one in a half hour, but if I can master the roller and get the paint flowing right, I know my next one won't take nearly as long.
Maybe I'll practice on the other side, and try doing it more freehand, without relying so much on the sketch, or worrying that it's not perfect. I can always scrape it off and start over.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Hi Russ, I tried everything to sketch on windows with no real good results especially during cold weather. The best thing I've found so far is Oil pastels. You can actally see what you are drawing. You would think the Acrylic base paint would creep away from it but it won't. When you remove the splash it comes right off with the paint. Another cool thing is that after the paint is dry you can take a paper towel an wipe off any lines such as a grid pattern that fall outside of the final work. Also, if you do have a design printed on paper (I do some Dunkin Donuts and they need their logo to be exact} you can follow your lines on the back side of the design, tape it up then follow the lines on the front with a dull pencil. The design will transfer clearly to the window. I hope this is helpful.
-------------------- John Browning JBG John Browning Graphics 439 East St Hebron CT Posts: 75 | From: Hebron Ct | Registered: May 2008
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Hey Russ, this is really one of the best times I've seen a window splash. The lettering style is perfect, you can really read it well and it's "eye catching". I did a window job once, back in 1997 for a skateboard shop in Kingston Ontario. It was fun, but it did take time and I didn't add as much detail as yours. Also, it was free, I was in a photography class in college and I knew a guy who worked at the shop so I just wanted to try it. Not something I would want to keep doing. Anyway, I'm not really a fan of window splashes, but this one looks great. Good work.
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I use a yellow lumber crayon for layout. $16 to $20 a gallon cheap ext. primer and water based day glo colors. Cel vinyl black for outlines. they make all colors but its over $120 a gallon, however it does cover opaque in one pass.
nocturna and golden taklon brushes and the short nap rollers. 9 inch rollers for the really big stuff.
[ June 07, 2010, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Jon Peterman ]
-------------------- Jon Peterman 200 Summit Loop Grants Pass, OR -------------------- a.k.a. dc-62 success is in Jesus Christ Posts: 434 | From: grants pass or. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Russ ....a couple more things... On the final outline, I would keep a baby jar full of paint mostly white with a little blue and black mixed in. It seems to look better than plain cheap looking white. When you blend the 2 neon colors, use new nap rollers, not used ones. It fades out better.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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The letters sketched on the paper had more "splash" than what ended up on the window. This is probably what would happen to me. It's easy for some people to draw very small and get everything the way they like it, but hard to transfer the sketch and keep the letters loose and fun at bigger sizes.
I probably would have vectorized and drawn full-size on paper. Is that cheating? HAHAHA
Still, looks good to me. At least you weren't afraid to try it, and that says a lot in this digital age.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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But that's less then a 2 hour job including waiting for paint to dry (which takes the longest) on one window like this size.... and no need for such a production with your ability's
Excuse but as window splash advertiser now... I measure cut white vinyl mask,.... adhere to window, 5-10 mins., draw out basic layout 5-10 mins.color 10-15 mins ...relax enjoy the day ...wait for paint to dry 15 - 30 mins (bigger or more windows no waiting)..outline and letter 30 -60 mins, cut remaining unwanted white vinyl clean up collect 5 - 15 mins. Green.. then reds.. then blue take a long time to dry compared to the yellows & orange which go on first so it really screws up time using Ronans enamel flo colors and the Aquacoat black waterbase for outline and lettering (which does not blend or smear)over color
Painting white on window takes way to much time to get right and you end up with brush and roller marks anyway (looks tacky) on inside White vinyl spray mask gives you consistent clean look and cost less in real because of labor time saved, paint saved using less also, plus take down is quick and easy nothing needed but a razer blade to start it.
I'm also looking for a vinyl that I can do in shop like Jon Butterworth is doing .. availability is the only problem here.
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I'm glad I posted this. Thanks for all the great responses and ideas.
I like the idea of using paint mask for the white. What paint mask is good to use? Gerber? Do you have to back it before you apply it? Do you do a dry or wet application?
If I could just see my lines, I could go much, much faster with the sketch on the window. When I drew my lines on, I could barely see them up close, and it was really hard to see the "big picture". I felt like I was drawing a mural through a magnifying glass.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Russ....by the time you drive back to the shop to cut the white mask, you could be done with the job. When your called to come out to "look at the window" that's when you take everything pre-packed and ready to paint! Most likely the business next door will see you painting and want something too!
PS...I haven't done splash windows in a couple of years now, but I still keep 3 milk crates full and ready to go! Another thing....customers LOVE simple cartoons and are willing to pay much more for that!!! Have fun or don't do it!
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
I bought some , tried it and immediately trashed it, just didn't pull far or cover worth a flip. Like Lawrence, I used the One Shot poster.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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