posted
I thought I would give Rapid Tac 2 a try on a glass application on a van job this evening, because I had heard a LOT of great recommendations for this purpose.
I had a sample spray bottle of it that I've had for quite some time.
I cleaned the glass as recommended with the paper towels, etc.
I then sprayed both the adhesive side of a Roland Soljet SC5430 EX 2 Pro print - (printed on Roland vinyl made for the Printer) and the glass itself.
I then positioned the graphic onto the glass, and squeegeed it out really good.
I thought it was going to be a picture perfect application...but then, things got kind of squirrel-y.
Here's what happened: I waited about 2 minutes, then sprayed the front side of the paper transfer-tape with the Rapid Tac 2.
Then, I carefully tried to start peeling the transfer-tape off at 180 degrees - flat back to the glass/decal.
The decal wanted to lift up - and yes, I squeegeed the bejesus out of it prior to removing the transfer tape.
So I struggled with the tape and finally got it removed, but in the process ended up with a ton of big 'ol bubbles. No problem..... I sprayed more Rapid Tac 2 on top of the decal and then easily squeegeed the bubbles out.... so I figured I had the job licked.
But not quite: I went over the graphic one more time, and noticed it was sliding around on the window and felt like it was kind of floating on an adhesive goo. I noticed that the adhesive around the edges of the print was wanting to kind of goo out from the edge as I moved the decal back into place.
after several minutes i placed my hand back onto the decal and gently tried to see if it would move - and it wanted to slide around on the glass...so I just left it alone.
I'm going to leave it set undisturbed all night in my garage and hopefully it will have dried-up/cured by morning.
So... my question is this:
What did I do wrong? I printed the decal this morning... and applied it to the van at about 11pm tonight - did I not give the decal enough time to 'dry out' prior to applying?
I applied a few other decals from the same batch onto the painted portion of the vehicle and they went on fine.... pulled the transfer-tape off and didn't have any bubbles, troubles, etc. Seemed to have adhered fine.
So, it appears to be JUST the glass application.
Any ideas? I'm a little concerned. I hope they stay stuck.
Thanks.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I used some RapidTacII only this afternoon. Cleaned the glass, sprayed the back of the vinyl (etch look) with the RapidTac and squeegeed down. Left for about five minutes, spray the mask and peeled it straight off without problem. No bubbles and stuck pretty good. It was a fresh gallon of fluid...
Just edited as I remember something.. it could be something on the glass - RainX? We had a helluva job getting a decal to stick on one customer's vehicle - but only on one side. Turns out the problem side had the glass replaced previously, so we concluded there was something on the surface causing the problem.
[ June 05, 2010, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: Graham Parsons ]
-------------------- Graham Parsons Signs 'n Such Ltd Swift Current Saskatchewan Canada. www.signsnsuch.com
"Saskatchewan - hard to pronounce, easy to draw" Posts: 710 | From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
The friggin glass was not cleaned. Anytime vinyl will not stick is because the glass is not cleaned.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Good morning guys - thanks for the responses!
I got up this morning and re-checked. The two decals on the glass are better than last night, but I can still push my finger on the edge and see some 'stretchy movement of vinyl.'
My hope is that after the vehicle sits out in the sun for some time, it will 'dry up.'
Rapic Tac 2 being too old? Possibly. Sorry to say I used a test bottle that was probably several years old. But I didn't notice that it had any kind of shelf-life listed on it. Does it have a shelf life? Does the formula break down? I shook it up good as instructed and also peered into the bottle, but didn't see that it had a 'separated' look...and didn't see any kind of debris floating in it....it was just straight-up liquid.
Watch the video: Did that Si.
Clean the glass : Did this also. I sprayed it down twice with Rapid Tac 2, then Windex, then Rapid Tac 2 and then wiped it with paper towel.
The odd thing is this: I checked the few other printed decals that I stuck onto the painted surface, and they all appear to be on 'rock-solid.'
It's just the glass....... I cannot understand this.
My only thought is that I replaced a decal (old Gerber one that faded to straight white) with the exact same size/configuration/image decal from the Soljet.
I scraped the old one off with a razor blade.... then used Goo Gone to clean left over residue.
But before we blame the Goo Gone as a contaminate, I'll just say that I wiped the glass with paper towel to clean the Goo Gone off....and then sprayed it a couple times with Rapid Tac 2 and then with Windex, then with Rapid Tac 2 again....wiped it again with paper towel.
Maybe that's my issue, maybe even after what I thought seemed like a good cleaning, there was some microscopic residue left over?
Should I have used something other than Rapid 2 to clean the glass??
But my over-riding question is.... why is this affected only on the glass and not the decals on the paint?
-------------------- Dana Blair Blair Signs Wooster, OH www.blairsigns.com
If sign makers go on strike, is there anything written on their picket signs? Posts: 835 | From: Wooster, OH, USA | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Just a thought Todd. You might have been better to follow the Goo Gone with Rapid Prep, than, RT2. Maybe the oils in GooGone were a bit too persistent for just using RT2 for a cleaner.
I've only used RT2 for cold, very cold window application. Like when it's snowing and in the 20's. and it's done a superb job in those conditions.
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1356 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Thanks Guys! Must be the Goo Gone oils as suggested...probably didn't get rid of them all. I just went out and tried to smooth-down an edge and the decal buckled-up like it was sitting on water.
Gotta remove the two decals, reprint and re-apply.
For now, I'll just install dry until I can do a test piece in the future.
Thanks.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Todd, the big problem is your cleaning proces, take the Windex home, never use around vinyl work! The contaminants found on glass left from window cleaners are very stubern (especially FRESH ones) to remove, they will mix with Rapid Tac and cause bond and evaporation slowing.
You will not see any cleaners used in my videos other then Rapid Tac, Rapid TacII, or Rapid Prep.
The Goo Gone is also leaving contaminants,these are really dificult to wash off (xyleen is base in most other glue removers) Rapid Remover has NO xyleen) therfore easily washed off with Rapid Tac products!
So... just clean the glass 2 times with (not bounty, not Viva, not lint free/static free)just CHEAP kitchen paper towels and Rapid Tac or TacII. This is usually all the cleaning necc. to obtain a strong instant bond in 90 seconds!
Its easy! Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
I know some window tinters down here that are absolute believers in Rapid Tac II. They didn't even know that it was designed for the sign industry, but they use it whenever they are putting tint over those little black dots up towards the top of a lot of rear windows, or if they are trying to get tint to stick to some compound curves, etc.
But they told me, "Man, you don't want to use that unless you want that tint to STICK..."
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Not sure how to post on Letterville but many of you know David Harding from Carrollton, TX and some of you knew he was having major surgery. It went well and he is now in a room. He would love to recieve calls on his room phone at 972-981-7529. Thanks for all your thoughts and prayers.
His daugter, C. Rachel Peña-Harding
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Nope, I have used "batch samples" over 5 years old, shake em up, work just like fresh product.
Learning to "FEEL" a substrate for wax,etc. comes after a lot of on the job experience.
Not all people can learn (or FEEL)wax, etc. on a substrate, which makes it difficult knowing when to clean with Rapid Prep. For all of you without furry knuckles, clean hands first with strong soap (no lanolyn soap additives)or Rapid Tac or TacII.
Now, place top side of hand (wrinkley side of knuckles/the side that gets tan)against substrate (glass is the most difficult to detect) now slide hand across area cleaned previously with R.T. or R.T.II, if it grabs with a little preasure at knuckles then its clean. If it glides smoothly/easily across clean area, clean again or clean with Rapid Prep, then again with R.T. or R.T.II.
This procedure comes with no guarantee.
Don't expect to clean with alcohol, window cleaners, simple green, 409, or any paint solvent, and especially xyleen, they will all contaminate substrate and cause poor bonding.
Roger p.s. get better soon mr. Harding!!
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Hey Todd... seems you are doing NOTHING wrong.
Glass is one of the smoothest substrates known to man, as basically it is "natural". Imagine the cell structure of HDU. Then apply this structure principal to say glass and the paint surface. The paint has somewhere to go... the glass does not.
You will find the decal will want to "aquaplane" over the surface. If possible, if one sticker, always just peel off the backing rather than using application tape.
Depending the time of year (or how quickly I want to get out of there), I often "hot" the mix up by adding methylated spirits. The colder the weather, the hotter the mix. I might go 60% metho and 40% water. NEVER had a fail and the metho helps evaporate the water.
Cheers - Gregg
-------------------- Gregg Sydney Signworks (02) 9837 1198 Schofields NSW Australia Posts: 368 | From: Schofields | Registered: May 2007
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