posted
Personally, I'm kinda thinking that the oil rig blowout is a smoke screen for something else going on. It keeps everyone's attention as long as they don't fix it.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3814 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Yes, once again they are cutting off the top to drop ANOTHER pipe with a bigger cap that MIGHT contain MOST of the oil.
Today, speculation seems to have taken hold that this may continue into December. That this is even being considered as an "acceptable" forecast is more appalling than the leak itself. Given the evidence at hand, that would mean the oil would reach the Gulf Stream, cover the entire US East and spread to Europe.
It s time to brush BP aside, clear the top of the pipe with a couple of torpedoes and use the same cameras provide us these live video streams of the leak to park a friggin submarine over the 20' wide pipe. Given the cost of what's to come (dead fish on Martha's Vinyard, birds covered in oil in Greenland and the pollution of the shores of Ireland), it's far less an expense than continuing to watch BP "contain" (read that as still get oil from" the leaking pipe.
THIS IS NOT A SPILL! It's a pipe coming out of the ground. CLOSE IT, COVER IT, BEND IT, CRIMP IT, DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO JUST PLAIN STOP IT!!!!!
"Containment" is no longer an option and a 3 to 6 month continuation of this leaking pipe is not now, nor should it ever be, acceptable.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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I, like Ray, am astonished , and disgusted with the fact that BP, and the Fed can't close a leaking pipe. You would think that they would have considered this scenario, and have had several plans in place. The stupidity at the corporate, and the federal level is amazing, and repulsive! Now consider if this were nuclear material, and tell me nuclear is a viable alternative! Like this oil leak, there is no real plan for disposing of deadly nuclear waste, or runaway reactors! All that money wasted on the Moon, and Mars when we should have been working on deep water endeavors to explore and protect our planet.
posted
***Disclaimer: Please don't get offended and reply with reprimands. My opinions are usually off-base and there is no way to make me change them. Sorry.***
I know it's bad. It's a disaster. A catastrophe. It's horrible. It's putting people in hardship. But as much as everyone down here is freaking out about it, raising a ruckus, staging protests, and generally panicking themselves into a frothy mess..... in 5 years, I predict it'll be hard to find lasting effects from this in the environment. In the history of the earth, this is a minor hiccup. I'm getting tired of it being in my face.
Do like Rapid said, shoot some torpedos at it... sink an aircraft carrier on top of it... airlift Congress out there while they are in session in drop it on it..... DO SOMETHING BIG AND QUIT MESSING AROUND. Put a big torch in the water to burn it up as it comes out, at least we'll have the largest heated pool in the world and will be able to go swimming in January.
It comes out of the ground, it'll go back in..... it'll make a temporary mess that will be either cleaned up by man or by nature. Release Dave's microbes on it. Throw some hay bales out there. Hook 20,000 Fram oil filters to a string and pull it around. It'll clean up. It's OIL, not SULPHURIC ACID, people. It's messy and will kill animals, but there are lots of other things in nature that kill animals too. Other animals, for example.
Animals kill people as well. A deer runs out in front of a vehicle, the vehicle swerves off the road, hits a tree and kills 5 people and the deer. An accident caused by an animal that killed some people. Out on an oil rig, the drillers listen to the BP officials, try to take a shortcut, make a mistake and blow themselves up. It also kills some animals. Okay, we're even.
This is really your fault. You drive. You need oil. You don't like high gas prices. If you are REALLY outraged, quit driving your SUV across town to attend the BP protests. Ride your bike.
What will probably do more damage than the oil in the water is all the exhaust fumes from the new yachts the lawyers will be cruising around in... Imagine a million billion dollar lawsuits and the lawyers getting about half of that for their fees. No, that's not an earthquake... that's all the lawyers jumping up and down in glee. I've heard that one lawyer peeing into the Gulf of Mexico can kill up to 8 pelicans and 20 dolphins, what are we going to do about that?
So, in summary.... it seems like the end of the world as we know it down here, but 8 years from now when the Skittles factory blows up, starts spewing Skittles into the atmosphere and it's raining candy on Canada with an eerie resemblance to those old commercials, we'll have forgotten all about this disaster.... unless you know a lawyer you can sail around the Caribbean with, in which case you may fondly recall the 'good ole days.'
[ June 04, 2010, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote from Jon, "This is really your fault. You drive. You need oil. You don't like high gas prices. If you are REALLY outraged, quit driving your SUV across town to attend the BP protests. Ride your bike." > True DAT!! < ...Dana, it's only a matter of time before we have a major nuke catastrophe in this country. And we think the oil spill is bad... god help us.
posted
I agree with pretty much everything said above, with just one qualifier. In BP's defense (as if they're deserving of it), is this not unlike any other disaster (or mishap) we've ever had before?
Things a mile deep in the oceans aren't too much different than if it happened on another planet. Nothing acts or reacts as it does on land, or even coastal waters. I honestly believe that if this happened on land, it would've been fixed long ago. The repair of this thing is not too unlike sending a team of engineers to Iceland to try to plug up the volcano. It's simply unknown territory, with unknown solutions.
We should never have had to be drilling in that environment anyway, except for the environmental whacko's. I read the other day where this oil source is gigantic, spanning much of the gulf and even coming near shore around Alabama/Mississippi. That means, under ideal circumstances, we should be able to get the same oil from the same source, with little risk.
Dave's microbes work. I've never seen them in water, but on land...they've been around for quite some time. We had an oil refinery shut down and close, when I was in Ohio. During disassembly, it was found that several of the old tanks had been seeping and there was a good bit of oil in the ground. Microbes were deployed, and after a bit, the mess was taken care of. In a few years, grass was growing, deer were running around the grounds, and it was hard to tell there had been a refinery there at all.
But we've got to get off our collective duffs and DO something. Forget the beaurocracy, and fear of lawsuits, and permits/regulations. Just fix the damn thing....and let Barry sort it out, between vacations and golf outings.
As far as not using the microbes, a friend of mine claims you can't tell the British anything, but then again he's Australian so there's a built in grudge.
Jon, the only thing I disagree on, and I hope you are right, is that some experts claim we'll be dealing with after effects of this whole mess 15 years from now. People are already showing up with heart and lung symptoms from the dispersants they are spraying all over the place.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I just cannot understand how the "fail safe" devices didn't work. Blow out preventers have been around since the 1920's. As stated there is less than a 1/1,000,000 chance that it would fail. But, I guess it only takes "1".
In the refineries, we used microbes to treat wastewater with great results. I'm afraid it would take a hell of a lot to treat the spill as spread out as it is.
posted
The effects, no matter how it all plays out, will be devastating to some people and animals and I doubt I'll be filling up at a BP any time soon. But I can't help wondering why everybody seems to think this is an easy fix and "why don't they just....." I've never seen any film as viral as the 2 farmers and the hay. If it were that easy, it would already be fixed. What the hell is the incentive to not do what it takes? Do people really think that bombing it or parking a sub over the leak will work? Is this just anger, or totally irrational thinking?
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
BP is now hiring pleasure boats to assist in the topside cleanup after undergoing a 4 hr training session.They will also spend 50 million bucks on a new PR campaign (a mere drop in the bucket).It has been rumored they want to lose the earth friendly yellow and green logo they are currently using and have solicited UPS for the use of their color and the slogan "What can brown do for you?"
-------------------- Darcy Baker Darcy's Signs Eureka Springs. AR. Posts: 1169 | From: Eureka Springs, AR | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
lets get real here Bp is not concerned with stopping the flow of oil,...their priority is to keep it flowing so eventually they can collect it, refine it, then sell it to us in the form of gasoline,fuel oil,diesel,etc etc,...as long as bp is in control of the situation the flow is going to be an exercise in containing the flow not stopping it,...too many millions of dollars at stake here. if they weren't in international waters we could just blow up the well head and close it with debris but then how would BP collect anything???? they aren't half as much concerned with stopping the flow of oil as they are trapping it for resale,....
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Tim, in what sense is it good for BP lose millions of dollars in oil to the ocean, expose itself to billions in lawsuits and become a severely damaged brand for which they had spent billions promoting just so it can keep the oil flowing and capture only 10% of what is being lost?
There is no way to know if blowing up the well won't make things worse. The source of the oil is 13k feet below the surface of the sea floor. Exactly what type and amount of explosives do we use that would seal the well without simply leaving a bigger hole in the floor and create a series of cracks that would allow even more oil to escape and make it next to impossible to seal?
[ June 05, 2010, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
I don't know Glenn, but its kinda like my grandpa used to tell me,...don't let the fox tend to the hen house,....they've had almost two months now and things aren't getting any better,...seems to me the urgency of the situation at hand would dictate a new approach to the situation. If it were anywhere within our national borders the govt. would have taken over weeks ago,....not that the govt would have done better it just seems to me that there should be an alternative to BP with and the posssible conflict of interest,....all the efforts that I have read about said nothing whatsoever about totally shutting the well head down,...only efforts to contain the flow of oil,...big difference in those two goals if you ask me,.....Just for analogy's sake say they drilled a hole in an old field down your way and it spewed 250,000 gals of oil a day all on its own no need to pump it out,....now thats a fountain of black gold,..you do the math,... thats over 14500 barrels of oil a day at over $70 a barrel,... would you want to possibly plug this money fountain up as a priority or try to contain it so as to capatilize on the profits,...as of today they say they are capturing about 31% a day of the oil and they announce they are pleased with their effort? what about that other 69%?
[ June 06, 2010, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Dealing with this situation is unique because of the ocean depths involved. The Feds have openly admitted that BP is better equipped to handle the the pipe than they are.
I would rather BP move cautiously and avoid making things worse.
We're all anxious to see the flow of oil stopped. But real life problems aren't resolved in 30 minutes like they are on TV and I fear that is what we've come to expect. We've forgotten about the Ixtoc oil spill in 1979. It took them 10 months to stop that spill. It was a shallow water well, and unlike the Horizon, the engineers had direct access to it.
The reality is that there isn't going to be a quick fix. Where the Ixtoc well was only 150ft. below the surface, the Horizon is 5000ft.
And for what its worth, something good will come out of this. Engineers are going to be learning a lot from the experience so hopefully such an event can be avoided in the future.
[ June 06, 2010, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
Disclaimer: I don't work for BP. (I do have a friend that does)
I'm from south central Louisiana and have worked in the oilfield transportation industries (both land and sea)for 7 years. I've been to hundreds of rigs and I can tell you that in our country, we are the most environmentally friendly and safety oriented drilling operations in the world. As for BP, anyone in the oilfield will tell you that they're one of, if not the safest companies around. Just to give you an idea, the cook on the rig has to do a safety report just to cut up a chicken for the days meal. I'm not defending BP, just stating the facts.
We hear all these comments about "BP doesn't know what they're doing" or "how come they just don't do this to stop the leak". Folks, it's a mile down, equal to working in space. There's no easy fix for this. everything weighs hundreds of tons, nothing easy to handle. When the rig sank, it took the pipe with it, causing it bend, making it that much more difficult to fix. They are dealing with thousands of pounds of pressure, not the same as stopping your garden hose. If it were that easy it would have been fixed by now.
People say the government isn't doing enough to stop the leak. Newsflash folks, the government can't fix this, all they can do is watch BP engineers fix it. obama ain't gonna stop it that's for sure. Another thing many people don't know is that the government is actually slowing the process down. When BP engineers come up with a plan, the government has to "approve" it, so when you hear of a new plan actually taking place, it was designed 36 hours before that. The best thing the government can do is let the engineers do their job and quit holding up progress.
If this had to happen, it's the best thing that it happened to BP and not some small independent company. All those big quarterly profit figures they make are a good thing so they have the resources to pay for all this. A smaller company would be claiming bankruptcy by now and screw everyone over (not to say BP couldn't do the same). I agree with Jon on a lot of what he says, in about 5 years most won't even see the effects of the spill.
Like I said, I'm not defending BP, I do think they need to step the hell up on the cleanup/protection efforts.
One last thing, obama has put a moratorium on deepwater drilling. In a press conference in Grand Isle Louisiana, he said that he put the moratorium in place and that there were 10,000 fishermen out of a job. Someone should have stood up and told him that what he just did will put 500,000 + people out of a job. There's thousands of wells out in the Gulf today and not one spill. There's thousands of companies that depend on the oilfield to stay in business, caterers, safety companies, service companies, janitorial companies etc., etc., etc. Even sign companies. This equals hundreds of thousands, even millions of jobs related to the oil industry. It is said that for every well drilled, there's about 500 companies involved and the employees they support.
Folks if you think we don't need drilling, think of this. Everything you have is made from oil, you car, just about everything in your house, down to a lot of the things you use in your business (one shot paints etc). What will happen if this ban on drilling keeps up is that all these drilling companies have to work their rigs to pay for them, and they'll send them overseas to drill. Quite literally we could wipe out an entire industry with far worse effects than 10,000 fisherman out of a job.
The sad fact in all this is that 11 people lost their lives. Their deaths have fallen by the wayside with all the hoopla about the spill. God Bless those poor souls who went to work and never came back so that we could have gas in our cars and all the other things we are fortunate to have in life. May their families be comforted and we thank them for all they did to give us what we have.
[ June 06, 2010, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Tony Broussard ]
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Didn't want to raise a fuss here and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it,..once again I'll state I don't know (the answer),...I was just trying to present an alternative view for consideration,....Until today when I read more in depth on one report,I was yet to see any plans to totally cap off the well head, just plans to contain the leak,..seems they are trying to drill another shaft to plug the original shaft not to relieve the pressure on the original well as has been reported,but to plug it,...thats the first time I had read anything about anything other than relieving the pressure on the original well and using the second well to gain access to the oil,..maybe BP is the only one who knows what is actually going on,... as it seems most of the journalists don't have much of a clue and a majority of the reports I have read are misleading and quite biased,...
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
No fuss at all Tim, just letting people know what they don't hear on tv. Sure I blame BP and the decisions they made that caused the blowout and they will pay you can bet you a** on that.
What I'm trying to convey is that I get folks are anxious to get the leak stopped as we all should be, but there's a lot going into this than people know. It's like someone walking into your sign shop and saying hey why isn't that sandblasted gold leafed sign I ordered yesterday ready now:)
This is a tragedy anyway you put it, from the lost lives that night, to the lost animals to the economic disaster this has caused for some. I'm certainly sympathetic to the fishermen and I hope BP takes care of them as they should, but shutting down drilling will cause a far worse economic disaster.
I know we're all on the same page here, we all want the leak stopped and return life to normal. It's going to take time, but eventually we will be ok. The good people of Louisiana know this all too well from hurricanes. We will overcome, we will survive.
[ June 06, 2010, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Tony Broussard ]
-------------------- Tony Broussard Graphic Details Digital Media Loreauville, LA Posts: 395 | From: Loreauville, LA | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
How many of you actually watched the video link I posted? I'm not outraged with the accident other than the fact that they are using the same well head blow out preventers that they've been using for 30 years. (You can't tell me there isn't the possibility of a better designed blow out preventer) What is still bugging the heck out of me is that a proven, cheap, fast, technology for cleaning up the mess isn't being used while they are trying to fix the problem. Why? There are warehouses full of the oil eating microbes. They eat the oil and produce healthy byproducts for fish. When the oil supply runs out the microbes die off. Dispersants are just as toxic as the oil yet they continue to spray it in the ocean. Has anyone seen the video of what the ocean looks like where they've sprayed the dispersants? It doesn't get rid of the oil. It just breaks it up so you don't see it on the surface. Here's a short clip made by Cousteau. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtAe2ZAyMw0&feature=related
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
BP is now collecting 25 million bucks of oil a month from the recovery. That sounds like alot of money, but a mere tiny fraction of the costs they are incurring on clean up, attorneys, settlements and everything they are trying to do to help mitigate the problem. The oil industry will learn alot from this one and solutions will better emerge. In another month or two they will have this one go away in the press and the litigation will go on for years. BP is a big player and can well afford to do what is right, especially over here in this country and especially post Katrina for Louisiana.
Microbes, hay bales, booms, burning whatever. They will do thier best to make the problem go away. The economic incentive is definitely there. I just wonder how we all can sell them more signs! Any suggestions?
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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Dave, I watched it and agree it is part of the solution.Microbes have been around and used successfully for a while.I have seen firsthand the damage which is caused from sewage being pumped into the ocean where sea life basically dies.I don't believe the effect of this is as short termed as some believe.Marine biologists should be part of the equation.This is a multi-faceted problem.
-------------------- Darcy Baker Darcy's Signs Eureka Springs. AR. Posts: 1169 | From: Eureka Springs, AR | Registered: Nov 2007
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