posted
We've used MacMask with great success on smooth surfaces . . . it pulls more easily than GerberMask - which is so aggressive that removing it can be a pain . . .
The issue we're trying to solve here is a tad bit of bleeding due to the added texture from our latex primers used for the backgrounds of the murals - and the conforming of the mask to the oil paints applied over the primer . . .
The MacMask is a tad thicker and less aggressive (which is great for flat surfaces) - and as said, it does bleed more than we care for. But the fear is that GerberMask is still really aggressive and though it would probably stop the bleed, it would be tougher to remove . . .
So a thinner mask with some more aggressive adhesive - but not as much as GerberMask . . . is that asking too much? LOL
Any suggestions are most appreciated!!
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
There are several different airbrush masks which may work. Call Coast Airbrush.... and maybe Mike Lavallee for suggestions....
-------------------- Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain ! Jim Moser Design 13342 C Grass Valley Ave. Grass Valley, Ca. 95945 530-273-7615 jwmoser@att.net Posts: 488 | From: Grass Valley, Ca. | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Jay, I don't know exactly what you are working on, but,,,many years ago before I new that there was paint mask,,I use to mask, with masking tape Then I would brush on a clear, let the clear dry or tack up, then use the paint. This way the clear bleeds out but not the paint. Of course by doing it this way, you would get a thicker edge.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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I've been using Avery (we all know how that sticks) on my textured sign faces. I found the technique that helps the mask to conform to the rough surface (without bleeding) is to heat the mask after application (a heat gun works)and then brush it hard with a very stiff scrub brush. I got the idea from the wrappers and the brush idea comes from the rivet brush.
A little heat helps with the removal as well. This should work with most any brand mask. It'll only take a minute to test for yourself.
BTW, LOVE the murals!!!
(p.s. Imagine me given vinul advice )
Joe,
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
stop the bleed with a choke coat of the background color first. A little heat to the gerbermask will release it easier. I've been using averys lately, don't notice much difference to gerbers though.
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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You want to make sure your substrate is not allergic to the type of paint you are using.... as far as Joe's suggestion of using a heat gun or stiff scrub brush, I think you may get some protest..... oh.... wait.... we may not be on the same page here.....
[ May 05, 2010, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I'm still using Spraylat on textured surfaces. It used to be a standard masking process prior to computers.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Spraylat???? Everybody who ever used it and put on too thin a coat, raise your hands.
I bought something from Fellers a little while back called PASK. Worked very nicely, although I was using it on auto base coat. It wasn't very thick and had a moderate adhesive.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
Yes it's still on the market. I thought Jay could put it to use. I ordered this gallon a year ago and was give the option for Green or Blue. It' still a great product for masking both smooth and rough surfaces. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't disappear from the market because it's made for hand cutting. Not many of us left.
Good for you boys. Ricks question is appropraite since some of these good old products aren't available.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Looks like I have some mask options to try!!
As always, my sincere appreciation for taking the time out to help me!!
We need to cut the mask on the plotter for the stories used on the murals - so Spraylat won't work - but I'll get samples of the others suggested - and try the heat . . .
Letterheads . . . your own personal encyclopedia of craftsmen's knowledge . . .!! Awesome . . .
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hey Jay- I use the oracal 810. I have some if you want to test out a bit. It has worked well with basecoat / clearcoat, one shot, and HOK striping urethane. It does shrink back after it has been plotted if you wait too long to apply it though.
I have had very good results with using it in a hot paint booth, and cool temps. I have had a little issue with transfer tape getting good adhesion to apply if the graphic is small ( you know what kind of work I do, so my big work is your small work...)
Gimme a buzz anyhoo
-------------------- Ted Turner
Paint Designer / Stylist - Styling Dept. Harley-Davidson Motor Company Product Development Center 11800 W. Capitol Drive Wauwatosa, WI 53222
posted
Cheap removable adhesive vinyl is great. As long as the surface is completely dry works like a dream. Avery 500 series matt removable adhesive.
-------------------- Dirk Rampling Far South Design South Pambula NSW Posts: 39 | From: South Pambula NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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-------------------- Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesigns@bigpond.com Downunder "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer" Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Bill'n'Annie Davidson Heathcote, NSW, Aus. my Aussie wife, a Toohey's Old, my Holden Ute, Retired from the rat race! Posts: 309 | From: Heathcote, NSW, Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Hi Jay, I just finished a project using Oracal 631 (the removable vinyl for wall graphics) as a mask. I used it with latex paints on primed HDU that still had a fair amount of texture and it worked beautifully. I did do a bleed coat of thinned latex first, but it worked really well and removed easily with no effort and no residue. I tried it with 1-shot because I remembered this post and it bled just a tiny bit when applied right over the latex primer, performed really well with a latex bleed coat before the oil paint and didn't bleed when applied to an old panel coated with oil based (slightly textured with brush strokes). You'll have to run your own tests, but I think you will be very happy with both the conformability and the ease of removal.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Regarding the liquid paint masks: you have only to put this stuff on too thin once to realize the grave error you have made. Peeling millions of horrible little bits. Think of a very bad sunburn. Also, when rolling on a second coat, do it while the first coat is fresh. I've seen a second coat not bond to a first coat, so that the result is an attempt to peel two thin coats, with the top one trying to come off separately. Little bits times two. Also, don't leave it on a surface too long. It will bond too well. Think of permanent little bits. The Grip-Flex people told me to leave it on no more than two days; never a week. They were too late. There's a bob truck from the 80s, somewhere in Arkansas, with little bits still on it. And don't ever, ever let it freeze. Ever. Trust me.
Spraylat, Sign Strip, Grip Mask, whatever you're using: The stuff is great, but it demands respect. I will not even speak harshly to it.
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Kel, thanks. We seem to have found a solution - using two different types. The 'Gerber-like' masks that most companies sell is brittle and breaks all to hell when peeling it off.
The MacMask can be pulled off in one sheet - almost always - so it works well. But for small stuff it isn't as good. So we're now using both - and from what we can tell, somebody's selling the same thing under many names . . . for the 'white mask' . . .
But the MacMask is still best for flat, smooth surfaces when the letters aren't too small. Peels so nicely . . . Any texture at all and you need the other 'white mask' types of paint mask.
Thanks again!!
[ June 15, 2010, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Jay Allen ]
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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