posted
I have done what many of you said to try, painting the sign boards with latex. BUT....The paint stays tacky for DAYS...even a week. The signs I painted a week ago have been moved 2 times, then the last time they sat stacked on each other, 3 of them, 8"x24" (small) they stuck together, & now the latex paint is pulled off, the MDO primer & all, & stuck to the vinyl on the other sign!!!!
What gives? They have been sitting in my shop which is warm, heated with a woodbuner.
posted
Bobbie, Try thinning your latex down some. Some times the thin coat actually adheres better. The stick together is just a part of the beast. Here is a tip I learned from Chris Lovelady run an edge of Elastometric polyurethane caulking around the edges of MDO before painting with Latex paints. Bewarned It'll take the better part of a sunshiny low humidity day between caulking and priming. It will give you a very flexible sealed edge. again you should know it will always be soft and a little sticky feeling, so take it easy dragging the panels around, in and out of pickup trucks etc. You can actually take a fitch and smooth the caulk on with it, then after it dries run a razor blade scraper across the faces at the edges to trim away excess caulk. Latex is a different world.
-------------------- Bob Sauls Sauls Signs & Designs Tallahassee, Fl
"Today I'll meet nice people and draw for them!" Posts: 765 | From: Tallahassee, Fl | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
We use acrylic paints exclusively in our shop. We find using a fan dries the acrylic much better than heat ever does by itself. Heat causes the acrylic to skin over - drying from the top down. A fan pulls the moisture out quickly.
grampa dan
[ April 29, 2010, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8739 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
A waterbase acrylic has made it's way on the market and doesn't have the traditional problems you're dealing with.
It's know as DTM and sold as most paint stores. What you will have is the traditional latex without the long sticky drying times.
[ April 29, 2010, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Joe Crumley ]
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Hey Joe I am curious about this DTM is this the paint or an additive or? Online I found the options of a top coat or primer have you used it in another way? Also it didn't mention using it on wood. Thanks!
posted
i just started lettering with the latex and got some good lettering brushes from Mac per suggestion of Bob Sauls...by the way they work great..found that if you thin the paints with flowtrol(for latex)instead of water it goes on much nicer and smoother.
Bob if you use a wet rag while the caulking is still wet it smoothes the caulking real nice and takes off excess on the edges for no trimming..YES to the fan and we always spray our panels with an airless sprayer. we use a type of packing material that comes on a roll. we use it to put between the boards for shipment and on the saw horses when you are flipping. allway change it out..latex always sticks to latex...but i have to say i have some signs out there that are pushing 10 years and they still look great. no cracking and pealing! though the customer could use a cleaning...say that could be a new market
Lovelady
-------------------- "We have been making house calls since 1992"
Chris Lovelady Vital Signs
NOW WITH 2 LOCATIONS! Tallahassee, Florida Thomasville, Ga.
I thought everyone knew about DTM. It's made to paint directly on metal. Most paint stores offer it in the usual way, that is it tints like regular latex. But it's much, much harder and dry's fast.
If some dryies on your hands you'll be surprised at how hard it is to get off.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
I have also found that the lower the sheen the less risk there is to panels sticking together.
In the mean time, make sure you get a small piece of trim and some panel nails, stand signs vertical and nail the trim horizontally across the edges of the signs and tack the nails into the edges. This will keep them, apart while drying. A fan blowing "through" the faces will speed drying, especially if you block one open end while putting the fan at the other. Creates a "cyclonic" effect and dries the paint by moving the molecules around.
Cheers - G
-------------------- Gregg Sydney Signworks (02) 9837 1198 Schofields NSW Australia Posts: 368 | From: Schofields | Registered: May 2007
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I actually stand mine in front of the exhaust end of a de-humidifier (I'll add heat if temps are below 60f) On hdu, I apply 2 primer coats with 6 hrs dry time between each....2 top coats with 6 hrs between and then wait 12 hrs and apply a third. I wait 24 hrs before I mask and carve. Ship em right out wrapped in bubble pac....zero sticking.
Remember, latex doesn't totally cure for about a month.
Joe,
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
[ April 30, 2010, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Joe Cieslowski ]
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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What kind of a de-humidifier are you using. I've always wanted one.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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no never heard of the DTM but i will look for it. i shop Sherwin Williams..i have been getting more requests for the hand lettering but made the switch to latex years ago and do not like to mix oneshot with latex..love my new brushes. i have to double coat my lettering so i am looking for something that will coat the first time.
ohhh...i use the satin to paint background or gloss either will do fine to receive the vinyl lettering never flat.
i have been researching the Matthew paint system..for metal, getting more call for painted aluminum panels.
i think with all paints we want to rush the drying time but patience it the key here..i remember rushing the oil paint and bulitens and gettin the same results...but never stack panted panels they will stick every time!
-------------------- "We have been making house calls since 1992"
Chris Lovelady Vital Signs
NOW WITH 2 LOCATIONS! Tallahassee, Florida Thomasville, Ga.
posted
I am SO glad I posted this question. Thanks to all of you for helping out! I DID use a fan, I remember someone saying that before, that the air moving dries everything better.
I bought some Mack brushes for water based lettering at the Zoo meet in Cincinati a few years ago, & I am glad I did. It does take some getting used to, & yes, you do have to coat more than once. I find my edges are not as smooth as with the enamels. Would the Flotrol help that?
Patrick, it is shamrock green, a darker green I am using. My brother in law is a commercial painter & swears by Sherwin Williams, so that is what I am using, either Superpaint or the Resilience.
Chris, you say never use flat to letter vinyl over, but satin or glass, for the vinyl to stick to?
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
Liquor store has the answer... A pint or 1/2 pint of Everclear alcohol will help. A capful or 2 in a quart is enough. With the fan on low, latex will heal up pretty good.
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
spray or paint latex with thin foam rollers. take a couple coats but a few thin coats is beter and dries better than 1 thick one
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Reminds me of that Deka crap, dries quickly but needed to cure indoor for a week. Now what good is THAT in a commercial shop? That Deka experience had me in paint therapy for years.
Just when I think it's safe to go back in the water.....based paints, a post like this comes along and makes me run back and grip my oils based paints for dear life
I just finished a small carved sign all in latex and was happy with it. Lettering and all. although I did notice the ever tackiness you talk about Bobbie
Even after all the tips above, I wouldn't be stacking them again any time soon.
[ April 30, 2010, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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Any home dehumidifier will work. (Check Home Depot or Lowes) I use a 70 pint one. One thing to look for, however, is the size of the exhaust panel. Some are much larger than others. (Get the larger one)
OK, on the "sticky" thing. I started using Ben Moore's "Moore Glo" Soft Gloss. It stayed sticky for a very long time and my mask didn't stick very well. Then B.Moore came out with their "Aura" line. End of the stickies and the vinyl stuck better. (It really dries FAST) but didn't seem to cover as well. SO, my first two top coats are the Moore Glo and the third is the Aura. Ya gotta wait 12 to 24 hrs before you apply the Aura cause the two (Moore Glo and Aura don't mix.....different base).
Bottom line, beginning to end, 4 days and the sign is gone. (Remember, oil paints don't "cure" for 7 to 10 days)
Disclaimer....I use Ben Moore cause I get it in town....it ain't necessarily any better or worse than the other brands.....
AND, every thing I said here is worth about as much as you paid for it.
Joe,
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Ive been using satin finish latex for a few years now,and havent had any problems with drying or sticking. Ive actually painted boards in the morning and lettered them in the afternoon with no problems. If enamels would last long I would use them though. Loved that glass look of one shot.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Funny how difficult it is to post a reply in a forum, even after you've been doing it for seven years.
You type the reply in the little box, you hit 'Add Reply' ONE TIME. Pretty cut and dried, you'd think.
Hahaha... Billy... it's ironic. You come on here to criticize and make fun of someone's spelling and screw up a very simple procedure like clicking the 'Add Reply' button.
Bobbie spelled it right in the post, which tells me it was a typo in the headline.
/thinking.... //hmmm... I guess it could be his bobo computer...... ///no... it's him....
[ April 30, 2010, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Thank you Jon! Yes, it WAS a typo in the headline, if you noticed, I did spell it right in the body of my message. Was too tired last night to remember to change it when I noticed it.
But that is "My Billy", ever looking out for me !
Love you, Jonny!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
Joe Crumley, Aaron "Caveman" Taylor turned me on to BenMoore DTM It adheres incredibly well to PVC as well as Metal. Folks you must degrease those panels and letters I've use Simple Green with sucess. The thin coat of latex will be repelled by greasy prints etc.
-------------------- Bob Sauls Sauls Signs & Designs Tallahassee, Fl
"Today I'll meet nice people and draw for them!" Posts: 765 | From: Tallahassee, Fl | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Hey Chris, Sherwin-Williams does have DTM paints.
In another post, I had said I had problems with trying to letter with latex, and finding any decent brushes. I found some at Hobby Lobby that I like a lot, called Master's Touch. They come in a pack of 12 for about 10 bucks. They're nylon bristles and work very well. After spending a fortune in art store brushes, these worked much better.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Bobbie. Yes, Floetrol will make it brush much more smoothly.
One of the acrylic latex paints which dries well, without staying 'slimey' or sticky, is Sherwin Williams DTM. We use the satin or semi-gloss. But don't let any latex sign rest against another because they can stick together. I have painted posts and signs with DTM latex, and when I went back to removbe them 10 years later, the signs had to be knocked off the posts because they stuck on tenaciously after the the lag bolts were removed.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Bob sauls, you can use a high bond primer on the PVC and then you can paint it with any thing..it is ment for plastics and really smooth surfaces no worries with the little "oily" fingerprints! say what was it you had for lunch dude..LOL!
Joe Crumley, i checked in to the DTM (direct to metal)paints and Sherwin Williams says you can paint aluminum with it as well..going to give it some testing..great suggestion.
lietext pane-t...isnt that how spell it?? geezz!
lovelady
-------------------- "We have been making house calls since 1992"
Chris Lovelady Vital Signs
NOW WITH 2 LOCATIONS! Tallahassee, Florida Thomasville, Ga.
posted
ChrisL. The BM DTM is so good you can skip the primer. As for the Lunches I am from the south. It would include some meat from Shane's rib Shack.
-------------------- Bob Sauls Sauls Signs & Designs Tallahassee, Fl
"Today I'll meet nice people and draw for them!" Posts: 765 | From: Tallahassee, Fl | Registered: Jun 2009
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-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Ah Joe, you know that's old stuff I've already posted some place else. Just seemed to fit the Lunch wise crack made by our young Padawan, Right Chris?
-------------------- Bob Sauls Sauls Signs & Designs Tallahassee, Fl
"Today I'll meet nice people and draw for them!" Posts: 765 | From: Tallahassee, Fl | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
I sometimes use a humidifier to keep paint from drying to quickly. It can get as low as 5% here. I'm not in the desert, its mountains but still dry most of the time. And yes, I've had latex or acrylic painted panels stick together even after it seems they are well cured. Its just the nature of the beast. I put waxed paper or something between panels to stack them.
-------------------- Chuck Peterson Designs San Diego, CA Posts: 1052 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Years ago, an old school sign man taught me a little trick. You take a piece of wood 1/2" x 1/2 x 2". Pound in a 3/4" roofing nail on one side near the end and one the opposite side, near the end, you pound in a 3/4" brad. You make up a coffee can full and use them to place between the signs as you stack the against the wall. Will post a pic on my site with a link in a minute...
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1554 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Here is the link to my page with the Sign Separators that are easy to make. Just grab an old coffee can and make up a pile of these to use. You place two of them between sign boards and stack them together, leaving some air space between them to allow drying. Set a fan on the end and they will easily dry and not smear. Once dry, place the spearators back in the coffee can and voila! One set will last years and years.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1554 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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