posted
OK, so I must admit, I am guilty of the same thing I have bitched and complained about my own customers doing or potential customers doing over the years.
I cheaped out on a tool and now it has cost me more than the cost of a good one.
A while back I needed a small hand held grinder. I remember not wanting to spend a hundred bucks for one, I don't have the need for one all that much so I figured a lesser expensive one would be fine for the amount that I use that tool. So I purchased a Ryobi 4" grinder from Home Depot for around 40 bucks. Used it twice I believe, then it sat in the nice case it came in until the other day. I took out the grinder, plugged it in and within 5 minutes the power decreased until it stopped working. This tool has spent more time in the case then in my hands.
3 times I actually used this device. So I call Ryobi, they say it might be able to be repaired for free under warranty, but the closest repair center is over a half hour away. I politely tell the nice man, sorry but I learned my lesson and I'm going to buy a nice Bosch. Over the past 3 years I have slowly been replacing all my electric hand tools with Bosch, their price tag might be higher but they cost less to own.
SO in actuality this so called "cheap" Ryobi was VERY expensive, for I had to send this job to a friend to be finished, time lost, and add in the additional cost of buying the tool that I should have in the first place.
John Ruskin...your words ring true.
"When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do."
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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You're right Bill....Ryobi USED to make decent tools....but then, so did Black and Decker and Skil. Even some of Craftsman's stuff is crap now.
Not much decent priced quality stuff anymore.
I've been buying more and more Bosch tools too. They seem pretty tough. I've got a 14 volt cordless drill that has been seriously abused, dropped many times, overheated, and still will rip your arm off....after 3 years.
There are some cordless tools that I refuse to buy, as I don't think they were ever meant to be cordless....like hammer drills, circular saws, and impact wrenches...but they're still out there.
I've still got some DeWalt stuff; haven't had much trouble out of them. But going more to Bosch, Porter Cable, and Milwaukee.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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I am the most expensive tool although I go a little haywire once in a while. Most other electric tools I have are DeWalt, Bosch and older craftsman HD series which have never let me down in 20 or so years. Hate to say it this way but I never skimp on whatever it is that I need or want as I cannot afford to pay the price down the road
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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I have a forty year old Black & Decker drill that has been used and abused for all those years and still works.... you can't go wrong with Milwaukee though.... my first choice in tools these days.
-------------------- Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain ! Jim Moser Design 13342 C Grass Valley Ave. Grass Valley, Ca. 95945 530-273-7615 jwmoser@att.net Posts: 488 | From: Grass Valley, Ca. | Registered: May 2006
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I remember my first Chain Saw, a Stihl 028, I bought it 30 years ago, I paid at the time $500.00... people thought I was nuts to pay that much. I built 8 handcrafted log homes with it, that's the Real Scandinavian full scribed log homes, I did demolition work with it once as well, cutting through half in thick bolts, did'nt mean to all the same. I must have cut 100 cords of wood with it .. it has been completely submerged in water due to floods, twice, for days at a time.... I still have it, and it works perfect.. I say 500 bux well spent.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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I paid $19 for my 4" grinder at harbor freight....still works great.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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I have had good luck with all the Hitachi tools I have purchased over the last 5 years. They are reasonably priced and seem to be very well made.
-------------------- Jerry Starpoli Starpoli Signs... since 1952
845-795-2438 Posts: 446 | From: Milton, NY US | Registered: Jun 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Joey Madden: I am the most expensive tool although I go a little haywire once in a while. Most other electric tools I have are DeWalt, Bosch and older craftsman HD series which have never let me down in 20 or so years. Hate to say it this way but I never skimp on whatever it is that I need or want as I cannot afford to pay the price down the road
ELECTROCHEMICAL JOEY TOOL
Disclaimings: Our arrangement in content to the user's manual is overall and easily understood in the English. We thinking it is reliable that it is correct that the information was offered in the manual and trying much to avoid the artificial fault, but the mistake that will unavoidably be found in printing, if causes some careless mistakes, please forgive more! Printings and tool Made in China
Safely Instructings #1. The ELECTROCHEMICAL JOEY TOOL keepings the work area WELL LIT. No needings to accomplish these proceeedings. Only needing to keep work area freedom from the obstructings.
#2 Do not take the medicatings. When takings the medicatings, the dangerous can be much more the increasing reasoning the ELECTROCHEMICAL JOEY TOOL is being already medicating.
#3 Keepings the children and small the animals far proximity from the ELECTROCHEMICAL JOEY TOOL being for much the dangerous during operatings.
4. Keepings the ELECTROCHEMICAL JOEY TOOL far proximity away of waters as it may be drowning ELECTROCHEMICAL JOEY TOOL and voiding the warranty.
#5 If the ELECTROCHEMICAL JOEY TOOL operating the much eratic, stutting down the tool and welcoming to cool for 8 hours, changing the oilings and filterings then proceeding with the much carefulness.
#6 The ELECTROCHEMICAL JOEY TOOL cannot keeping the sharpness for long times. Frequent the sharpenings for safely operations with much the frequentness for reason of medicatings.
#7 Do not operating the ELECTROCHEMICAL JOEY TOOL ajacent proximity near the pantry of the food being that it will voracious consuming all the snackings.
[ April 19, 2010, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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-------------------- Kevin Betz KB Sign Company 21321 Ulrich Clinton Township, MI 48036 kbsigncompany@att.net Posts: 229 | From: Detroit, MI | Registered: Sep 2003
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Last week I was making some pancake batter and the hand mixer gave up the ghost 1/2 way through the job ... bought it right after we got married (50 years ago) ... and had to making waffles because the batter is thinner. Finish making the batter by using a hand whisk.
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Bob Moroney The Sign Guy 310 Club Valley Drive Falmouth, MA 02536 508-259-6297 Posts: 216 | From: Falmouth, MA | Registered: Jul 2008
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I once heard someone say that the simplest and best cared for tools always last the longest. In 1964, I bought an all metal Black&Decker 1/4" drill. Still going strong today. Just another topic for the good old days.
-------------------- Donald Miner ABCO Wholesale Neon 1168 Red Hill Creek Dobson, NC Posts: 842 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2006
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I have been slowly replacing everything with Hitachi and the reason is that the rental store in town here sells Hitachi and repairs everything. He has had Hitachi tools for rent for years and not fixed them. This is the kind of guy you can call when you need to buy something and he will spend a half hour going over it with you so you get the best product, even if its something he doesn't sell like an air nailer. I do pay a bit more for tools from him but I know if something goes wrong he will let me use another one while that one is being fixed if need be.
He also repaired the router head on my old CNC router for me when I was in a bind for it by piecing to dead ones together and got me through for a few weeks till I could have a new one ordered, which I got from him cheaper than online, He did it over night and charged me $40.
-------------------- Jake Lyman Lyman Signs 45 State Road Phillipston, MA 01331 Posts: 635 | From: Phillipston, MA | Registered: Sep 2002
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It's becoming increasingly difficult, but I look for American Made tools (and everything else) as a matter of course....and if that fails, I look for a known quality building country (Canada, Germany, etc)...but try to avoid Chinese junk as much as possible.
I have two Bosch tools, which are very well built; A cordless drill made in Switzerland, a jigsaw made in USA, and (unfortunately) a angle capable power screwdriver built in Malaysia (that's China, right?)
I needed a Reciprocating saw (Sawzall) last summer...and naturally figured on buying a Bosch... but people, read the fine print....even Bosch is now having their stuff made in China. This was true of their Sawzall... and I looked at three stores - Lowes, Mennards, and Home Depot where I finally found a reciprocating saw made by Milwaukee. But even it was made in either Canada or Mexico... which, for me is a lot better than Chinese junk.
I went all over town looking for a stinking drill bit that was made in the US.... couldn't find one!
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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At the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference last month, I was visiting with the scientist in charge of the robotic arm of the next generation Mars rover, slated to launch next year. He also operated the rock abrasion tools on the current Mars rovers, one of which wore out its diamond bit rather quickly. He told me the new rover will have a carousel with five carbide bits... from Home Depot! Their off the shelf bits exceeded all specs and are probably a few million dollars cheaper than something custom designed and built for the spacecraft.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Todd maybe it's the models sold at the outlet stores that have to be made in China for the low price. The Ryobi grinder I purchased was made in China and from the Depot. I checked all my Bosch tools last night and they were all made in Switzerland. Like all brands they do have a lower end and a higher end tool. I now buy my Bosch tools from CPO online.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm sure that some of you may have seen this before, but it came up on another forum that I frequent, and it seems appropriate here.. I've forgotten about this for years....
Common Tools Explained
To the unitiated, the workshop can be an intimidating place, full of tools you may not know what to do with. To help, here's a helpful explanation of common tools and their uses.
DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the room, denting the freshly-painted vertical stabilizer which you had carefully set in the corner where nothing could get to it. WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light . Also removes fingerprints and hard-earned cleco calluses from fingers in about the time it takes you to say, "Oh sh*t!" ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning pop rivets in their holes until you die of old age. SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make studs too short. PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the creation of blood-blisters. BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs. HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes. VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand. WELDING GLOVES: Heavy duty leather gloves used to prolong the conduction of intense welding heat to the palm of your hand. OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable objects in your shop on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside the wheel hub you want the bearing race out of. TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood projectiles for testing wall integrity. HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the ground after you have installed your new brake shoes, trapping the jack handle firmly under the bum per. EIGHT-FOOT LONG YELLOW PINE 2X4: Used for levering an automobile upward off of a trapped hydraulic jack handle. E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool ten times harder than any known drill bit that snaps neatly off in bolt holes thereby ending any possible future use. BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily used by most shops to cut good aluminium sheet into smaller pieces that more easily fit into the trash can after you cut on the inside of the line instead of the outside edge. TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum tensile strength of everything you forgot to disconnect. CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 24-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A very large pry bar that inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the end opposite the handle. AVIATION METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw. PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under lids and for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing oil on your shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips screw heads. STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws. PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part. HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to make hoses too short. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic bottles, collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts. Especially useful for slicing work clothes, but only while in use. DAMMIT TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the garage while yelling "DAMMIT" at the top of your lungs. It is also, most often, the next tool that you will need.
-------------------- Ed The Signwerks 1951 SR 254 Orangeville, Pa. Posts: 199 | From: Orangeville, Pa. USA | Registered: Dec 2000
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I've found my Ryobi 18v tools to outlast and out perform my Makita's. My purchase was not based on price. I like them far better than the Dewalt's also.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6716 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've got a 19 year old Bosch hammer drill that works beautifully. All indications are that it will keep doing so. I also have 3 year old kitchen with Bosch appliances. The oven door does not seal and hasn't since it was just out of warranty, the dials for the stove made it just through warranty before crapping out (note to self, replace pliers with aftermarket knobs) the piezoelectric lighters may or may not work depending on the position of your tongue. The markings on the cooktop and oven could not be read within a couple of months because they had worn off. The dishwasher works OK provided you put the spring for the detergent dispenser back in the right place and close the lid with a careful application of pressure to the leading edges of the cap. Needless to say I won't be buying Bosch again
-------------------- David Fisher D.A. & P.M. Fisher Services Brisbane Australia da_pmf@yahoo.com Trying out a new tag: "Parents are the bones on which children cut their teeth Peter Ustinov Posts: 1450 | From: Brisbane Queensland Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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David, I bought a Bosch tankless water heater for $1200. Trouble from the get go. Wonderful techies in Vermont kept sending me parts and I kept taking it apart and fixing it. Last go round I needed to hire a guy with a gas license to come out and read some pressures and it was moisture in the valve. The machine is useless and in my pile for the next dump run. I find hand tools more dependable and perhaps that defines the boundaries of their competence.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6716 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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My worm drive skill saw was great in the 70's.lasted 25 years hard use then just needed brushes.Went to replace it and Skill was crap so I bought a Bosch which I Stihl use.I just bought a new laser lens for my PS2 and it was crap.I'm going back to true tried and tested bored games like scrabble.wood tiles made in the USA.
-------------------- Darcy Baker Darcy's Signs Eureka Springs. AR. Posts: 1169 | From: Eureka Springs, AR | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Todd maybe it's the models sold at the outlet stores that have to be made in China for the low price. The Ryobi grinder I purchased was made in China and from the Depot. I checked all my Bosch tools last night and they were all made in Switzerland. Like all brands they do have a lower end and a higher end tool. I now buy my Bosch tools from CPO online.
Hi Bob - it's possible they have started doing that... although my Bosch tools were all purchased at one of the big box stores. So, if they started outsourcing production to China - to sell a cheaper version of their product at Home Depot to meet a price point for that chain - then they must have just started doing it.
Can't say for sure, but I would suspect it might tend to be a corporate wide decision....still, if that was the case, why build some in China, some in USA, some in Switzerland, some in Germany...etc?
You may be on to something.
What is CPO online? I'd be curious to see where Bosch makes their reciprocating saws (Sawzall) when purchased through that site.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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