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After a slow winter, things have really busted loose here... I've been so busy, I'm working myself to the bone. I recently received an offer for a partner, and I think I'm going to take him up on it. I believe he would be a silent partner and I'd probably see very little of him, he would basically just be a capital investor.
He is offering a LOT of money for this partnership and I should be able to pay cash for whatever equipment I need to really grow my business.... I see no other opportunity but that this would be much lucrative for me.
He is a former manager of a large bank, and should be very helpful in teaching me alternate way to make money. The only part I'm worried about is he is asking me to become his next of kin, and I'm not sure what all that entails... although he intends to make this whole transaction risk-free and do it all by the book with attorneys.
He asked me to keep this in the strictest confidence but I felt I should run this by my friends. Any advise for me? If any of your have had problems with partners and can tell me of things to avoid, kindly respond to me with urgency.
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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Well Jon, I've been in business for about half of my life & I've only ever seen one partnership survive where the partners weren't sleeping together. And lots of times that doesn't work either. Maybe I'm paranoid, but when a banker (or even a former banker) wants to give you money, you can rest assured that he'll want it back & then some when it will hurt you the most. No, I'm not advising you to sleep with him.......
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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I would definitely seek advice on this before signing anything. Do you have a local SBA (Small Business Administration) office near you where they have professionals who can look over this agreement.
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1266 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Janis & I have been business partners for more than 35 years and it has worked out well. Everything goes into the same pot however and we share the risk and benefits. We also still sleep together every night - even after all these years.
I had a partner in business only once - back when I was just starting and needed money. The partnership only lasted few weeks. I'm almost over it. Things are seldom equal and often not fair in one or the other partner's opinion. Like Rodger I've only seen one partnership survive in more than 40 years. In cases where one has the money you can bet they will be in the driver's seat before long.
I've had many, many offers of partnership money through the years... but I learned my lesson young when it only cost me a few hundred dollars (still a lot of money ion those days). It's far better to simply put off the things you think you need until you really can afford them - all by yourself.
Good luck with your decision.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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I took on a "moneybags" partner 29 years ago and a year and a half later came back from a short vacation to find the locks changed and his son sitting in my office. One of the lessons in there was 51%.
I decided after that employees would either work for me or I'd work for the man but I'd never be partners again.
I almost broke my resolve about nine years ago during a time of financial stress when I looked seriously at merging with another person's company. The synergy appeared great and I spent a lot of time on the merger but found out when I finally got to investigate his books (and him) that he was crooked as a barrel of snakes. I only got shorted about twenty grand on the one project we worked on together, which was a small price to pay considering what would have happened. There were subtle signals early on that I should have heeded but my emotions blinded me because I so wanted it to work.
I get along with just about everyone but I also have my own way of doing things and if I took on another partner, we'd probably get on each other's nerves because he'd be the hard nosed businessman and I'd be the laid back artist.
I wish you the best on your decision.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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My father's taken on two partners in business which I know of, over the years. Both did not pull their weight, and just wanted new company cars, company phone accounts, and didn't earn what they cost. It cost him a fortune to get rid of them each time.
He's been in many other businesses as an equal director- one of five. Those worked out OK, but he still found he often brought in a bigger share of income, for no recognition.
Ultimately he's been best when he was the boss.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I had a business partner many many years ago...He was the one with the money and was the "silent" partner. I did all the work. He got half of the profits.
I borrowed some money from the bank and bought him out after 1 year.
I ended up with a legitimate bank as the partner for a while but at least the original "silent" partner and I are still very good friends after 40 years.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
P.S. I meant to say- you need to get a frank answer from him 'why does he want to form a partnership with you'? What does he wish to get out of it. What if you see things differently? What will it cost you to sever the deal if things sour?
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Well, I thought the thing about him wanting me to become next of kin and the fact I was supposed to keep it in strictest confidence, and respond to him promptly might raise some red flags with you guys..... although it does seem legit since he claims there is "No Risk" to me...
Here's his offer addressed to me, Intending Partner... please nobody steal his email address and try to cut me out of this deal.....
quote: Dear Intending Partner,
I sincerely hope that this letter will not come to you as a surprise or an embarrassment since we neither know each other before nor have had any previous correspondence. Let me start by introducing myself, I am Mr. Urs Morgenthaler, Chief Financial Officer and Managing Director of the operations of Arab Bank (Switzerland) Ltd. I have a secured business proposal for you;
Before the U.S and Iraqi war, our client, General Hassan Umara, who was with the Iraqi forces and also a business man, made a numbered fixed deposit for 18 calendar months, with a value of US$85,000,000.00 in my branch. Upon maturity, several notices was sent to him. Again after the war another notification was sent and still no response came from him. We later found out that General Hassan Umara and his family had been killed during the war in a bomb blast that hit their home. After further investigation it was also discovered that General Hassan Umara did not declare any next of kin in his official documentations including the paper work of his bank deposit. And he also confided in me the last time he was at my office that no one knew of his deposit in my bank. So, US$85,000,000.00 is still lying in my bank and no one will ever come forward to claim it. What bothers me most is that according to the laws of my country at the expiration of Seven (7) years, the funds will revert to the ownership of the Switzerland Government if nobody comes forward to claim the funds.
Against this backdrop, my suggestion to you is that I will like you as a foreigner to stand as the next of kin to Gen. Hassan Umara so that you will be able to receive his funds.
WHAT IS TO BE DONE:
I want you to know that I have had everything planned out so that we shall come out successful. I have contacted a will & probate attorney that will prepare the necessary legal documents that will back you up as the next of kin to Gen. Hassan Umara, all that is required from you at this stage is for you to provide me with your Full Names and Address so that the attorney can commence his job. After you have been made the next of kin, the attorney will also file in for claims on your behalf and secure the necessary approval and letter of probate in your favor for the move of the funds to an account that will be provided by you.
There is no risk involved at all in the matter as we are going to adopt a legalized method and the attorney will prepare all necessary legal documents. Please endeavor to observe utmost discretion in all matters concerning this issue. Once the funds have been transferred to your nominated bank account, we shall share in the ratio of 60% for me and 40% for you. Should you be interested, please send me the following information below:
Full Names Current Residential Address Country of Origin
I prefer you reach me only on my PRIVATE EMAIL ADDRESS below and finally after that, I shall provide you with more details of this transaction. Your earliest response to this letter will be highly appreciated.
Email: ursmorgenthaler55@kimo.com
Kind Regards, Mr. Urs Morgenthaler.
[ April 07, 2010, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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About 2 1/2 years ago, a good friend of mine asked if I wanted to go into business with him in a new shop. I was still digging myself out (both financially and mentally) from my divorce, and was trying to piece alot of things back together in my life. Seemed like a pretty ideal way to get things rolling again, a fresh start so to speak. He has pretty deep pockets and was ready to spend BIG duckies on all new equipment including a 54" plotter / printer, laminator, software... the works. I spent literally hours and hours researching equipment and sourcing suppliers, attended the Atlantic City show that November, on and on and on.... Finally, a bunch of stuff was purchased and then when things seemed ready to rock n' roll,he started second guessing everything I said, and was really evasive when it came time to start discussing the nitty gritty of how the whole deal was gonna work ($). His idea was that I work there for cash for a couple months "Just to see how things go".. Cash being like $15 hr. I don't know everything about everything, but 28 years is 28 years, and my experience was the ONLY experience in the whole deal... plus, I was taking a big risk in closing my own operation, and if things didn't work, I was faced with starting over. All in all, I was just WAY too open ended for me to be comfortable with. Also, by this time I was getting pretty tired of researching stuff and offering my own input (based on 28 years running my own shop)only to have it ignored while he went his own way only to come back weeks later having arrived at a conclusion that was the same as what I'd advised in the first place.... This story could go on and on, but the condensed version ends pretty predictably.... He's got his own shop now, with about a hundred thousand invested in toys, and the friendship is pretty much history. Last we talked, he had a staff that consisted of a guy that does T-shirt art and a girl who had a 2 year degree in "art" from a community college "She's REAL good with photoshop!"
Meanwhile, I'm still slogging away here, doing what I do, and fairly content most of the time.
I will say this, I was kind fun while it was goin' on, and I miss our old friendship, but like my fiance Terri says, It is what it is. She's a bunch wiser than I.....
[ April 07, 2010, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Ed Gregorowicz ]
-------------------- Ed The Signwerks 1951 SR 254 Orangeville, Pa. Posts: 199 | From: Orangeville, Pa. USA | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Jon Jantz: [qb] Well, I thought the thing about him wanting me to become next of kin and the fact ...... .......Blarf Blarf Blarf Kind Regards, Mr. Urs Morgenthaler.
I gotta start reading things alot more carefully....
I CAN'T BELIEVE I JUST WASTED 20 MINUTES COMPOSING AND TYPING THAT WHOLE LITANY OF MISERY !
(doh!)
[ April 07, 2010, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Ed Gregorowicz ]
-------------------- Ed The Signwerks 1951 SR 254 Orangeville, Pa. Posts: 199 | From: Orangeville, Pa. USA | Registered: Dec 2000
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Boy......And to think you were actually going to sleep with him. Or would that be incest?
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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I took Jon's question at face value as some others did.
I stick with my response and my experiences.
Even though it was a joke...some of the honest responses were valuable information for those who might consider serious offers in the future.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Well, I took that one "hook, line & sinker" LOL Oh well, someone out there may be thinking about partnering up with someone & now will be looking at the deal from another perspective.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Well, guys.... thanks for the advise. I've decided to pass on this offer, due to the serious and lengthy replies. I apologize if you feel you wasted your time.... hey the information you put out there is good, even if the original message was a spoof.
It was really a scam detecting test. I thought I dropped plenty of clues in paragraphs 2, 3 and 4, including poor grammar and strange requirements. I threw in the "kindly" and "urgent response" as a bonus. I guess Blake wins the prize, although it's probably not fair, he knows me too well.....
Seriously though, I did notice something. The grammar and spelling in these scam emails is starting to improve and they are getting more believable. Here's another one I received this morning, and if I wasn't aware of all the scammers out there, I would probably fall for it. It's actually written pretty well, only has a few capitalization errors and sounds much more American than most of them... Line 4 still sounds like broken English but the rest is a lot better.
quote:Hello Good day.. My name is Roland Neil with the Roland Neil Inc And i am sending this email to your business in regards to the order for some Banners and the Sizes that i am looking for are :
1. measures 30 x 60 inches 2. One sided on Vinyl. 3. Full copies Red Ink and the color of the Background i want is Yellow 4. l want you to write of the Banner ( Christian Methodist Church ) For the Artwork. 5. With grommet for out door use
And Please provide a quote on 100 copies and please can you send me an email reply back with the Estimate price of that plus tax without shipping.Advise me the method of of payment you accept so that we can proceed with this order. I will be Looking forward to hear back from you so that we can proceed with the Order . Regards.... Thank you Roland Neil Stay Blessed
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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I'd pass that job to your new business partner, Jon, and just charge him some commission.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I apologize, Father Ray. From now on, out of respect for the extreme seriousness of sign-making and apparent lack of humor in people from the early 1900's, I will restrict my posting
I apologized for wasting anyone's time. I really did not think anyone was actually take it serious after carefully reading the original post. I was really looking for the "Jon, you're dumb. It's a scam." from the get-go.
Again, I hang my head in shame and repent in sackcloth and ashes. I offer you this 14' tall can of Pepsi as a token of my sincerity....
(Wrapped it in all reflective this week)
[ April 08, 2010, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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I agree, the real responses were timely and relevant to anyone considering taking on a partner. I guess I'm one of the few lucky ones in the bunch - when I first started this business while I was a student at Clemson, I partnered with an architecture major who had worked at a theme park sign shop for several summers. Neither of us had any money, so the biz was built on sweat equity and we shared all responsibilities equally. He was a great partner, a great friend, and I learned a lot from him. We were together for 10 years and due to a girlfriend problem, he decided he had to get out of town. Our friendship and respect for each other has lasted for almost forty years and if he wanted to get back together, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
So there you go - not ALL partnerships end badly......
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Jon Jantz: I see no other opportunity but that this would be much lucrative for me.
The only part I'm worried about is he is asking me to become his next of kin,
although he intends to make this whole transaction risk-free and do it all by the book with attorneys.
He asked me to keep this in the strictest confidence
kindly respond to me with urgency.
I think people have to pay a bit more attention to what they are reading. I thought the post was funny, and I think there were plenty on comments that should have given away the fact it was a joke. It also ephasizes the need to be a bit more cautious about reading between the lines.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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