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During the 90's when some of us discovered that traditional lettering enamels didn't have the toughness they once had, I switched to HOK Lettering and Striping Enamel on the suggestion from a nearby body shop. I had to do something in order to keep my semi tractor customers. I was fed up with their bitches. I had been able to keep the paint on, but it was fading badly and losing its gloss in a relatively short amount of time. They were even talking about maybe just lettering their rigs with vinyl and skipping the striping.
Well I didn't want to lose all my striping work, so I started the new learning curve with HOK hoping it would last. Man did it ever. I have had semis striped 10 years and more return to the shop with a new owner wanting a name change. To my amazement, the striping has held up. I just can't get over it.
Today I had a customer call who was one of the last to want even the lettering painted on. Most customer have opted over the years to have vinyl for the lettering and paint for the striping.
He said, "How in the hell do you get that stuff off!" It had been on there 10 years and the truck was pretty much junk, but somebody was wanting to buy it. He said "Easy-Off Oven Cleaner isn't touching that stuff!" I laughed. Sand, buff or repaint says I.
So you stripers that want your work to hold up and have been struggling, I wouldn't hesitate to use this product. You'll thank me later.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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AMEN to that!!!! We use nothing but urethanes these days. Mostly HOK with the exception of silver and gold where we use DuPont Hot Hues striping urethane. We haven't had a call to come back and touch up where somebody smeared something in years. The quick drying feature is wonderful. You make waaaaaaaaaaaaay less of a mess with urethanes!
(edited to ad) the urethanes require the use of a catalyst and present a few more health issues. If you use a "hardner" in O.S., you are facing these same issues.
[ January 04, 2010, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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George..... I have not used the DuPont Hot Hues yet.... What do you like about it over the gold and silver HOK ?
-------------------- Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain ! Jim Moser Design 13342 C Grass Valley Ave. Grass Valley, Ca. 95945 530-273-7615 jwmoser@att.net Posts: 488 | From: Grass Valley, Ca. | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Jim Moser: George..... I have not used the DuPont Hot Hues yet.... What do you like about it over the gold and silver HOK ?
Coverage is better for one thing, the gloss or sheen is more brilliant and thirdly and most importantly, the "pot" life of the gold is way better than HOK. I've always been a "premixer" working out of a 3 oz cup. HOK gold, especially in the summer, lasts only a few minutes, the DuPont lasts a good hour, maybe more. DuPont works very nicely. It's thinner than HOK, especially when mixed. It's more expensive and only comes in half pints. It's also slower drying than HOK.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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This is for Bill Jim and George I've learned here in Letterville that you cannot teach an ol'dog new tricks and that there are only a few of us who actually live a trouble free life while doing our thing. I personally been using HoK since the early to mid 80's before which I used Dagger-Lac and Chromatic. Although I've retired, the paints in my possession are all lead based whether sign enamels or enamel urethanes and are used occasionally when I pick up a brush.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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I'm right at the point of seriously needing to investigate this product. I spent about 7 hours today re-doing some lettering that the painter wrecked by having runs in his clear coat. I use OS with hardener, and it works well, we've been doing it this way for years. But this time, the painter put too much clear on. It had runs, and where they were, the lettering krinkled. I'll get paid for the fix, but I'm thinking that a urethane won't do this as bad, therefore won't create as many difficulties when interacting with others. Also, you know that if you try lettering with regular automotive paints, the coverage just is not there. At least not in my experience. So...are the urethanes you're talking about more pigment rich, like lettering enamel? Another thing, would they work with a mini roller? I'm wondering about vinyl paint mask, cut and roll, etc. Can these products be used as a substitute in most sign painting processes?
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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James, the HoK { House of Kolors } urethane being spoken of is a striping and lettering paint sold in 1/4 pint containers. Both Bill and George use this for their truck lettering and they can instruct you on their course of usage.
One of the reasons I personally do not use OS with the hardener is that in reality the hardener is not really compatible to the OS because OS is an oil based product and the hardener is not. Although the hardener may work well for your type of work, the hardener is actually an Isocyanate based catalyst and though very similar to the catalyst which is used with HoK, the catalyst or hardener if thats what you want to call it, when used with HoK produces a higher gloss as well as a extremely fast drying painted surface ( 3 to 5 minutes to the touch } and as you know OS does not have that drying power. My tripod website below has been up since 96 teaching persons the usage of HoK as well as the differences between sign enamels and urethane enamels, check it out as it may help you in your quest as it has helped others.
Note: OS calls its catalyst hardener as not to make it sound dangerous, which in reality its hardener is Isocyanate.
Some years back Union Carbide had a huge explosion in India which killed many people, the factory released Isocyanate gas and other toxins which were the main culprits in this disaster.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
I don't understand, I tried HOK last summer the coverage was horrible, you could see trough the black paint on a white background, worst with the red, how come you guys don't talk about this issue?
-------------------- Pierre Tardif P. Tardif Inc. 1006 boul. PIE-XI sud Val-Belair QC. Canada G3K 1L2 418-847-4089 pierre@ptardif.com Posts: 800 | From: Quebec city | Registered: Aug 2002
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Pierre, how exactly were you using the paint from A to Z? Were you thinning it in anyway, Did you shake the can for any length of time, did you stir it after shaking? There are so many variables as with most any paint but I too have never had a problem except with the Cardinal Red which I only use for tone and special mixes and use the Roman Red straight which covers unreal for Red. Most all my work consists of the original 10 color selection not counting the 2 golds and the silver
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
What about guys that use paint by the quart? Why do I hear a loud Ka-ching! in the back of my mind?
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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James I personally drive a Mercedes coupe' but I could have bought a Chevy. I believe HoK also comes in pints if you order them through your auto body supply, that is if their distributor carries HoK. The coverage is quite amazing and you'll find yourself using less paint than sign enamels because you don't thin the paints
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
James, when you consider a couple factors you might not think the price is out of line especially when you consider the longevity of the product. If your work holds up, word will get out as it did for me. I mean I draw from a good radius and it's not because I'm the best, but if you own a $100,000+ vehicle why would you want to screw it up just to save a few dollars. I seriously doubt your customer would crap at an additional few dollars if it meant that his vehicle would look great year after year.
First with traditional lettering enamels, a quart is probably a bad size choice for a striper, because you're using such small quantities of paint. Each time you open that quart, you expose it to air. Eventually the paint skins over. The more skins -- the weaker the paint. HOK on the other hand does not skin over, so you can work all the way to bottom of that 4 oz can without having to deal with skins. The paint will not harden up until you mix in the catalyst, because it cures through a chemical reaction.
I will be more than happy to send info on how to mix the paint, etc. for anyone interested. Joey has a web site which explains the paint, and George would surely be a wealth of info on the product.
Second, I've heard before about how it will screw up my brushes. If you spend $20 on a striper, for instance, and you stripe 20 vehicles, that brush cost is now $1 per vehicle. The paint, catalyst, reducers may amount to less than $5 per job an increase of maybe $2 over traditional lettering enamels. I seriously doubt you'll hear an objection from your customer.
Joey is right, there has always been negativity out there in regards to urethane lettering paints, but they saved my butt, and if you want to squash complaints about how your work doesn't hold up, etc., you may want to give it a try, and know that there are those of us out there that will cheer you on and help you with the learning curve.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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As far as the "ruining brushes" goes, I've heard it too but , myself, I've never witnessed it. Sorry, but I think this one needs to go into the old wives tale category!
I want to publicly thank both Joey and Bill for all the help they gave me in overcoming the learning curve in regards to urethane's.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Sent an e-mail to HOK this morning and they replied right away! They had me fill a complaint form and they'll probably replace the product.
Georges also replied with a definite explanation of the product too, thanks!
I will definitely give it a test ride as I had encounter some problems with lettering enamel.
As far as ruining the brushes it,s not a big deal as I always clean them with lacquer thinner. What is bad for a brush is not the product used but the fact that you let it dry and don't clean it toroughly. always kept them in motor oil and never had any problem doing so.
I use tha small plastic cup (one oz.) that they use in restaurant for ketchup and mayo. Available at your closest reataurant supplies store.
-------------------- Pierre Tardif P. Tardif Inc. 1006 boul. PIE-XI sud Val-Belair QC. Canada G3K 1L2 418-847-4089 pierre@ptardif.com Posts: 800 | From: Quebec city | Registered: Aug 2002
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Guys, I'm convinced enough of the product quality, I've worked with lots of different paints. It's just that below is a typical project. (Not the orange, silly) I mean, I can use a bit of paint on occasion. Often times with rollers in paint mask.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
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I've learned here in Letterville that you cannot teach an ol'dog new tricks and that there are only a few of us who actually live a trouble free life while doing our thing. I personally been using HoK since the early to mid 80's before which I used Dagger-Lac and Chromatic. Although I've retired, the paints in my possession are all lead based whether sign enamels or enamel urethanes and are used occasionally when I pick up a brush.
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