posted
This post has no real value other than for me to spit and rant for a few minutes. You all have the same situations and I'm not asking for solutions - just getting negative thoughts out.
This morning Mike and I were finishing up a project for a local church when a realtor (first warning sign) drove up and asked that we come by her office after finishing because she needed some sign work done. It was only a half block away (actually) so we stopped in.
She explained that she was spending a fortune on signs and needed someone who could do them at a lower cost. I polititely said that we might not be able to help but would give it a shot. She gave us a price list of a local shop that was closing up and heading back East.
She explained that they did good work but that they were just too expensive.
Here's what she was paying:
18" x 24" D/F alumnimun sign blanks - $17.50 12" x 18" D/F choroplast (wire stake) - $5.50 D/F aluminum name riders - $6.25
After returning to the studio I sent her an email stating that we could not be competitive with the prices she was paying.
Now, I can understand why the person was going out of business.
Over my career I've dealt with this type client over and over and really never get bothered by their attitude. They are everywhere.
I am definately more disturbed by the poor designs that clutter our streets and vehicles.
OK - end of rant. Let's do something positive...like take a nap.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Catharine C. Kennedy CCK Graphics 1511 Route 28 Chatham Center, NY 12184 cck1620@taconic.net "Look at me, Look at me, Look at me now! I't's fun to have fun, But you have to know how!" Posts: 2173 | From: downtown Chatham Center, NY | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
That's why we rarely do work for the real estate crowd. There ae too many shops in the area, who give their work away. They eventually go out of business and another takes their place. I have only one client, in real estate, who I have known for many years. We play music together and they buy their signs from us.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I had a guy come in this morning, wanting a regular real estate type sign (not coro) on a frame that he could push into the ground (site sign)
He had been dealing with a sign person who would not return his calls after three weeks. My flags kind of went up but I didn't let on. I told him I was not the cheapest shop in town, and he said he didn't care, he needed his signs ASAP.
I quoted him a price of $35 s/f 18"x24" .040 and $35 for the frame, plus a $75 set up fee. He didn't bat an eye and ordered six of them. I felt OK with the price.
I don't know how people can just give their work away like that. What is even sadder is that clients expect everything cheap and fast, and will price-shop until they find someone stupid enough to do it. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I'd be curious to know what quantities those prices are based on.
Believe it or not, the prices are pretty close to being in line with company's such as DeSign which specializes in real estate signage to the real estate industry.
posted
NO RACE CARS AND NO REAL ESTATE..............PERIOD!!!!!
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
i have YET.....in all my years, to do business with ANY REALTOR........who wasnt PAYIN TO MUCH for their signs they get. i just dont understand this. they sell a product of MANY DOLLARS, saying they work on commission @ 2% of $100,000.00 thats $2000.00. most get 10% so that would be $10,000.00. and they WANT YOU TO WAIT FOR YOURE MONEY, when they seel it. and THEY ARE THE CHEAPEST S.O.B.'S when it come to signs to SELL THEIR PRODUCT!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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First we have to understand that real estate agents aren't the enemy. For the most part, agents are responsible for paying for their own signs in part or in whole and there is no guarantee that the property listed will sell. As a result, the agent is out of luck and out of their own money.
A company called DeeSign is probably the best known source among real estate companies and agents. Every agent knows who they are. I have a cousin who is a real estate agent and has given me their catalog and price list. What I've done is figure out a way to match their prices and still maintain a 40% margin. My selling point to them is that they save money on shipping. 99 times out of a 100, that is all it takes.
As to the bigger signs, I've put together a sign package. Basically, the agency pays for the PVC Post & Frame kit with a Dibond panel. The agent pays for the vinyl graphics.
I sell the agency on the need for a consistant/uniform look to their signs. This allows me to have a series of template files set up in Corel Draw. All the agent has to do is e-mail me the info. I drop it into the appropriate layout and send the file to my wholesaler. The layout is printed on removable intermediate vinyl and no lamination. This cost me $2 per sqft. For a double-sided 4x8, the print cost me $128. I sell it for $275. I don't do installs. The whole process takes me about 45 minutes to at most an hour. I get my 40% margin and a lot of repeat business.
Should the listing contract expire, the agency takes up the sign, delivers the panel, I remove the vinyl graphics and we're ready to start the process all over again.
For the agent with a really tight budget, I sell them 4x8 coro printed in full color. They cost me $40 per S/S panel and I sell them for $100. If the agent wants a custom layout, they pay my regular design fee.
Cheep? Probably. But it keeps my foot in the door about new subdivisions and developments. A lot of these realtors end up becoming some of my best salesmen to developers. It also opens the doors for me to sell them ad specialties, t-shirts, business cards and a whole bunch of other stuff.
posted
and the 1st time they CAN BUY IT CHEAPER ELSEWHERE............they gone!!! no thanks...... i do better with little league fence signs.....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
So the possibility that they may go to someone else in the future is a good reason for not doing business with them? Huh?
Little leagues are among the most notorious for looking for lowballers and freebies... Still, it wouldn't stop me from bidding the job or doing their signs.
Aren't you glad restaurants and such don't feel that way? Heck, there are places that i have eaten at that i will, in all probability, never be back to because I don't plan on returning there...
I can see it now.. "Hey buddy, you can't eat here because you will never be back..."
"I won't fix your car because i know you will never come back again..."
"Sorry, I won't do your surgery because I know you ain't gonna be a repeat customer..."
LOL! That nap is looking awfully good...
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
bruce you really know better, my point was WE/YOU/US spend time getting these NOTORIOUS LOWBALLERS, what they need, and they have no loyalty to you...... NO MATTER HOW WELL you treat them. you really need that nap.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
If you are absent a system for selling You are at the mercy of their system for NOT buying... David Sandler
The world is increasingly engineered. The little shop suffer because people who have systems are running away. The systems are running our country.
IE: Fast food is based on a system that turns out mediocre food in the same amount of time every where.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
The point regarding systems is very valid. An organization will purchase from a vendor that integrates within its system - if the system works well, price becomes secondary.
Most of us don't do systems well - we're creative people, and that sort of thing bores us pretty quickly. But as Glenn demonstrated, he has a system that integrates with the needs of his customer. The customer knows he doesn't have to hand-hold to get a consistent product. Of course, he could go find someone cheaper - but then he risks having his system disrupted. It's not about a customer's "loyalty" per se; repeat business goes to whoever can fulfill the requirements - speed, price and consistency. In that sense it is just like fast food - not very good, but it's cheap and there's no surprises.
I think it is notable that Raymond's realtor only started complaining about prices when the shop she bought from was closing its doors. Sounds like her REAL fear was that with them gone, she was going to have to start paying a realistic price for her one-off signs.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Everyone here should pay more attention to what Glenn is doing.
Everything we do is a system in that there are the same basic steps to take an idea to a finished product.
We have a responsibility to ourselves, employees, and customers to not only understand that system, but to continually improve on it. The better the system, the more value everyone gets out of the final product.
Ray, in your thread on the consultants looking at your business, did they once suggest you should slash costs (use cheaper materials)? Instead they focused on streamlining your system, reducing inventory, and increasing throughput.
You should listen to them. Use your creative mind to figure how best to increase efficiency and quality while satisfying your creative side.
posted
hey bruce....GOTCHA HAHAHAHAHHA. sittin here lookin like a ROBOT, got all different colored wires attached to my chest. gota have it on for 24 hours.......HOLTER heart monitor.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
"The system is the solution" is my motto. There should be a system for doing everything you do. If you have a system, you can train someone to do it; if not, it might take you a year or more to train them. If you don't have a POS system, how long will it take to "learn" pricing? 20 years? And how much will that cost you in mistakes? There is a system for everything if you apply yourself.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote: There is a system for everything if you apply yourself.
Thank you ricky...
To my friends,,
Is it no secret what I endured for the past few years. In fact, I had more resources as college kid living in a one room apartment.
I put together a complete marketing system to match the area that is now paying off. Yes it took a while but it is now at the tipping point.
I sit here in a place with the highest of unemployment in a county, with hundreds of empty commercial buildings and find myself amazed at the income growth. My businesses are reaching income not seen since the storm. I am paying off the final credit card all because of the marketing systems I set up.
First, I cater to those who are least likely to be affected by the recession. It don't matter if Sam says the price is way too high. Its simply thank you for calling.
Any one can do it. It just takes a few hours of practice to get step one started. All it takes is a phone call..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
more horrible than someone who sell cheap is the abosolute disgust in layout and design that suctomers will pay for and/or tolerate
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
i sell 2 sided 18 x 24...versacamm printed on 040 aluminum with the h slide in frame for $100 each. i have 6 to do for early next week. if people don't like that price, i can sell them printed coro with a step stake...10 for $150...(which is a 100% markup). ya get what ya pay 4.
after being in this silly business for over 16 years, i am now following the $$. if people don't want to pay then i will do more accounting work. i just don't care at this point to work for burger king wages.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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