posted
Today I was working in our shop, making final additions on a fairly large piece ready for delivery. The task I was doing was cutting a whole bunch of dowels to length and then shaping them on a disk sander. The task didn't require a whole bunch of ability, but it did allow me to think.
Doug's post about the book E-myth and the summery Bruce posted in that thread was an interesting read for me. It summed up some of my thoughts about business nicely - although I take an opposing goal for our business.
The book speaks of the skills necessary to build a 'successful' business. I would argue that it depends on your definition of successful.
We grew our business rapidly a few years back. It was a successful model - one where I had to step back from my role as primarily 'making stuff' to managing a crew who did it for me. Janis managed the financial side of the business. While we were wildly 'successful' as far as making money and I enjoyed my role as manager of people and projects I quickly realised that I was missing the part of business I enjoyed most- making stuff with my own hands. It was also stressful to keep all the balls in the air at once. So we purposely downsized.
A few years later we built our 'ultimate shop' which allowed me to both do a fair volume of creative work while keeping my hands dirty at the same time. 'Successful' for us was creating a HOME-BASED business that both allows us to make a good living AND allows me to design and create projects that are wildly creative... with only part time help. We have no desire to 'grow' our business... only refine it more to do even more creative projects. In the process we will also make a good living.
The 'secret' for us was to buy some highly technical equipment to help us, and to continue to learn (with passion) and evolve our business while keeping firmly in mind our goals. WHenever I am tempted to do something different I have to ask myself if it is REALLY what I want to do - if it is furthering our stated goal.
We do two types of projects in our shop... one is where others have had a hand in design. These are mostly about making a living. We are doing fewer and fewer of these as time goes on. While they may be lucrative they aren't nearly as satisfying as the other type...
These projects are the ones I get to design and fabricate. There are few limits here... and I find it truly satisfying to take them from the first inkling of an idea, through design and on to completion and installation. These, for us are the most profitable, both financially and to make me satisfied creatively... and this is our primary goal in business from here on out.
Getting dusty AND making money too in Yarrow...
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm doing exactly what I want to do after all these years of doing what I wanted to do. Just sitting back now finally able to grill after waiting two years to find someone who could convert my natural gas grill to propane as Hank Hill would have had me done. After fifty or so years listening to what persons wanted me to do and never listening to them I still get to do what I want and they still like it. Like Si, I work when I want to and do what I want to do. Life is grand when those who want their vehicles done by me actually leave them with me to do what I want and when I want. Of course there are small 1/2 hour jobs where I keep their vehicles 3 or 4 hours, but that's only because I choose that length of time so the prices can measure up to the amount of time the vehicle are left with me.
life is grand in Grants Pass
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
Yesterday I told Shirley that I was going to clean the car today, inside and out. Well I DID wash the exterior but I'll leave the interior until tomorrow...or Monday.
I also told her that I would scan and print copies of all our travel documents, debit/credit cards, drivers licenses and Mexican vehicle registration, then also e-mail all of them to myself if we happen to lose something while we are in Mexico.
THAT project I successfully completed.
I am doing exactly what I think Si and Joey planned on doing. Enjoying the life I worked at saving for for 43 years. (In Si's case 143 years!!! )
I know you are younger Dan, but just like your approach to business, I am sure you are also planning for your future. For the point in your life when you can "play" at working and pick and choose which work you wish to play at.
In fact, now that I think about it, I have a feeling that you might already be at that point Dan!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey Dan, my wife's grandpa insisted I read the E Myth last year and I did. He owns a succesful trucking business and to him everything is facts, figures and statistics. The E Myth has some great points but makes those of us doing what we enjoy, and not making our business a "machine" that anyone could run once we build it as a system to seem like morons. I am too much of an idealist to want to spend my life that way. If that's all anything were about, we should all technically own Fast Sign franchises.
So our micro sized business has been built around 2 goals: to do the kind of work my wife and I enjoy, and to provide the resources we need to spend weekends with friends and family etc. The old timers like Si and Joey are far more who I look to as far as mentoring than books like the E Myth or my well intentioned grandpa in law. Life is short, carpe diem.
posted
I read it twice actually, and did it not classify the majority of us as "technicians"? And were not the technicians portrayed as an inferior choice, and thus the myth part of the E Myth?
posted
well, if you only want to build signs, and have no desire to build a sign business... than yes, you would be a technician.
If your desire is to build a sign business (as well as whatever other goals you may have) ...then focusing your skills & your time entirely on learning to build signs for example, as opposed to focusing some on building a business... that would be an inferior choice for the purpose of fulfilling a desire to build a business.
Joe Endicott is a letterhead I met here in Letterville, and his story comes to mind. If I'm not mistaken, he was building a business & realized he really had no desire to do that. He sold the business to someone who still wanted him to work there, doing what he loved, designing & making the signs.
And let's take Dan for example, I don't want to try to speak for Dan, since he is here & can do that quite well, but to help illustrate a point, Dan loves the right brain creative side, however if I'm not mistaken, his wife Janis does some of the left brain accounting work. He is fortunate to have that assistance. Of course I'm sure he could & he has done that side of business, as he mentioned above, and more than most he is decidedly NOT looking for a systematic approach to building a business that can run itself.
Some of us are right brain people who do not have any help with running our business, and sometimes a book that communicates some important left brain methods can be helpful. The book wasn't written for the sign industry, and not everything can be applied directly, but in my opinion, it is full of valuable insights for anyone running a sign business, who would admit to a greater understanding about the signs, than the business.
It most certainly could not be summed up by saying we should buy a Fastsigns franchise. It could be said though, that the book might encourage any of us building a sign business, to consider building one that could be sold when we are done with it, and not one that every facet relies directly on the central figure around which all value is lost without that individual.
posted
I agree with what you are saying Doug, and probably didn't articulate myself well at all (a lifelong habit I'm afraid.)
I completely agree with the fact that there has to be a balance of building the business with loving what we are doing as creative professionals. My real issue with the E Myth was the notion that somehow being a craftsman (technician in the author's words) came across (to me) as if we should all be building businesses that can run automated to a certain degree (i.e. insert employee b where employee a once was etc.) There is a certain degree of wisdom in that, but let's face it, when it come's to custom signs that are design intensive, very few sign companies are going to replace employee a (who may be a very gifted designer) with employee b who may be a good production guy. This all becomes even more complex for sign shops who have built a reputation based on the design skills of the owner. This certainly brings Dan to my mind. He has a vision and creative energy that you are not going to be able to train someone to duplicate. By that model, Dan is a prime example of what the E Myth (again, my opinion) says is all wrong. I personally think the E Myth applies nicely to 99% of all businesses. I don't see the validity of applying all of it to a creative based business like making custom signs, or an interior design business or graphic design company for that matter. There are plenty of good principles in the book, don't get me wrong, but this is part of the downside of our industry: if you are good, and striving to be better and passionate, you are not going to pay someone 12 bucks an hour who has that same drive and passion. I respect what you are doing building your business Doug, I really admire that you have a true business sense (probably far better than my own) and are still very creative. I hope I'm not coming off too aggressive, I just really got irritated at the book, mostly because of the reality that it represents: craftsmanship (especially in the U.S.A.) is dying out as people only look at bottom lines and dollar signs. Life is about far more than that, and culturally we are way off course.
posted
I enjoy the conversation Sean, no worries regarding aggressive points of view with me. I would venture a guess that you are far more irritated with your wife's grandpa than you realize. (I learned that in a book )
No seriously, I have a whole lot of other thoughts about Dan's real topic of discussion, that I haven't really started putting into words yet, because I started defending the book I suggested. The book was a suggestion for Glenn, and not Dan of course, and I still think it would benefit Glenn, though I never would have thought to suggest it to Dan.
To finish my comments on Michael's book & save some typing ambition for this threads real topic...
Regarding the term "technician" as I understood it's use in that book... many qualified sign artists, or tradespeople of all sorts, arrive at a crossroads where they have been gainfully employed by some business entity where their responsibility was to be a "technician" meaning they had a skill set that revolved around production or service of some sort... becoming an expert of their craft.
Rather than go further with E-Myth theory, I'll switch to one of the other more influential books in the evolution of my business beliefs, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" In this book, being "self employed" is considered one step closer to the author's idea of a path to accumulating wealth. Again, folks like to say they don't want to always worry about making money, but those same people will still tell you they hope to be free to do the things they love.
I don't want to "worry" about making money either, and being "rich" is not at all my main motivation, or the definition of success for me, but accumulating wealth does seem like a prerequisite for me & my family to remain free to do the things we love.
The reason I switched to comments about this other book, is because the author makes a distinction between "self employment" and "true business ownership". This is just his definition, but I took it to heart, as i saw a lot of value in his words.
The craftsman who is an expert in his field, wants to work in his chosen trade, and not be subject to the whims of an employer... this is a good candidate for being self employed.
Sean, when you mention many of the challenges of the graphics field, and the personalities of many of our letterhead friends... I think self employment is a suitable & acceptable choice for many of us.
By Robert Kiyosaki's definition, "true business ownership" is defined by building a business that you can step back from, even for a full year, and it can generate a passive income for you. This doesn't mean you need to remove yourself from your business, but you can if you want to.
The first chapter of the E-Myth describes a Bakery owner, who is in the transition between the infancy stage of her business & an adolescence stage. She is also on the verge of what seems to be an extremely successful business, about to implode. I saw myself in that chapter to such an extreme degree when I came across that book, it was almost a religious experience how much I knew I had to listen to what that book had to say.
I'll try to wrap this up, but after that book, I decided I would become an employer, instead of a one man show. I worked hard with that goal in mind, positioned myself, when the time was right, the right guy walked through my door, & I have no regrets for that decision.
I met a great number of Letterheads at my first meet in Georgia, 3 years ago. That opportunity couldn't have even been considered at the time I read the E Myth. It happened almost entirely because of the tremendous impact the two books I've just mentioned had on my conscious attention to answering for myself the question "what do you want to do, and are you doing it" I had decided I wanted to run a business that could run without me.
That trip to the Dixie meet was my 10th year in business & the first time I took a vacation without closing down my shop entirely. I had not had any vacation in around 4 or 5 years (I know... poor Doug stuck in Maui ) and I was ready for one!
I've met Dan at 2 Router workshops in the last 18 months, & I met over 100 Letterhead's & Walldog's this summer in Pontiac... my shop was open for business & helping me pay for those trips while I was away. That is part of the trade-off for me. I do have new stresses, risks & problems, but I do not wish to go back to being a one man show.
Many people are quite content AND successful as self employed craftsman, without a lot of "business" concerns. From Glenn's post the other day, he may be successful, but I don't think he is entirely content with how things are running today.
Since it's a family operation, his is not a fair example, but someone like him, at a point like he described, would in my opinion have to go back to a smaller operation of a self employed craftsman, OR systemize their operation into a more automated and unavoidably larger operation than they might otherwise have been able to succeed with.
Although I stated I don't wish to go back, I do have fuzzy views of where i wish to go, & I am quite familiar with the fact that it will be easier to get where I want to, if I figure out in advance where that is. I was really pleased to see this post, because as I think I mentioned in another post, one of my two FT employees left Island Sign yesterday, to relocate to Europe.
I am forced to reassess things around here. And I have repeated one of Dan's lessons to myself, many times, of how we what we are doing today, is what we will be doing tomorrow, and if it's not what we want to be doing tomorrow, we have to stop doing it today.
My right hand man & I will step up to the plate, put in some OT, cut out some wasted motions, & be able to do pretty close to the work of three men for the next little while here... but there will need to be some changes if we don't hire a third worker right away. I have always loved change, so this is a good time for me to try to make some decisions of what changes will make the most sense for me, my employee, my business & the whole gamut of opportunity that awaits us.
I hope I choose wisely.
(edited to fix typos, and to add one more thought. I was thrilled to have a writeup in Signs of the Times this month. There were 3 photos of signs in there, the first being my own sign. Tony, my right hand man, built that sign to my specs. Every material & hardware choice, every measurement & color was my design... but he built it all. We are both very proud of the result, but I am almost more proud that I was able to let go & entrust this to him. He has been here 3 of the last 5 years, and that sign was at least 4 years ago, but at the time it was an important milestone for me to reach in the transition to business owner. Both of the other signs in that article were 100% designed by me, but almost entirely built by Tony, and Andy who just left. So, it is a team process now, and although I don't do as much if the hands on craftsmanship, it is still a creative career. I am fortunate that trying to create a successful business seems to satisfy my creative ambition in much the same way as sign fabrication always has)
[ September 06, 2009, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Am I doing what I want to do? No. Scary thing is I'm not even sure what I want to do. Tough situation for a 40 year old.
I know one thing for sure, paperwork sucks so naturally, I'm gravitating to the technician side of things. I'm currently cleaning up my home office, finding things that really, really really REALLY should have been logged and filed AT THE SHOP ages ago.
So now the technician, me, gets creatively stifled as I wade into the growing mess as I clean up.
It's going to take a lot of hard work and a clean slate so the focus and creativity can come back and play.
Workin on it in Cloverdale
Gerald
-------------------- Gerald Lauzé FeatureWorx Creative Fabrication 206-19148 27th ave Surrey BC Posts: 264 | From: Cloverdale ( Surrey ) BC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
This all gets a bit fuzzy trying to understand all the intellectual reasons we do or do not do our businesses they way we try. I decided 21 years ago on three simple axioms: No Stress, Make some money and Have Fun!
Having no employees is real easy. I do sub outs regularly, but prefer to just do my own work and charge accordingly. When I have time, I work on my landscapes and show in various places. I have some 20 new pieces so far for the year, so that tells me I am finding some time for my art. What do I really want to do? More of the same! Not interested in owning another hotsie totsie art gallery. Not interested in owning some other business (although I am working on one new idea). Do like to make signs, write fiction and paint my landscapes. I have some great clients and they have become tremendous friends. It is not about the money, at this stage, but charging enough to maintain my lifestyle is vital. I honestly figure at this stage, I am on borrowed time and have really done about everything and traveled to about everywhere I ever wanted to see. I want to help some others find a similar happiness and to continue growing my brain. I especially enjoy the connections through this website and have learned much from all of you. We are so lucky to be living now with this instant way to relate and learn. Bottom line is "More of the same, please!"
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
So much comes to you when you reach out to do the things that you love for those who love you and those who don't. The rewards keep coming and coming, as well as the knowledge of what true happiness is. When I lose sight of the dream, I feel that I become empty and colorless. To get out of that stage, I just discipline myself to perform a simple task of a simple thought, such as feed the birds or the stray cats and critters. From there I listen to good music and the creative juices start to flow.
It's from that I get back into the swing of things, sometimes to a different tune and drummer but it does revive me.
I wanted to learn signpainting because I couldn't do it when I tried back in 1972 in the Florida Keys. I didn't know how to use quills but only artist's brushes, not enamels but oils and acrylics, not do layouts but renderings of nature and animals.... so when the opportunity presented itself in 1981, I jumped right in and started from scratch with the old timers up on the scaffolds.... no tools but our brushes, paints and pounce bags, you know...
thanks for the post, it got me thinking again.
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I want to paint signs and ride my Norton...when I can do both at the same time I will have achieved Nirvana. Until then, I guess I'll have to ride to work and paint when I get here.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Probably like the other old guys, for years I always said how much I would like to be able to just do the work and let someone else do all the paper work. Now with my son running the shop and his wife doing the bookwork, along with my daughter doing the work and her brother in law manning the computer this old guy has it easy. Most of the work is being done with the computers and printers, this gives me lots of time to do as I please. All you have to do is live long enough. Bill
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am going through the transition of losing a 5 year employee who was a great designer. I am still capable and enjoy the creative part of making custom signs. It was great to give a creative job to someone that I knew could handle it on her own without me hovering over. I miss that because now I am doing all of it which is hard to juggle the production part as well.
So Yes, I am doing what I love, but still trying to keep up with the production and office work.
Keeping costs down while waiting for the economy to improve makes for some long days. I am thankful for having had the luxury of a great designer for 5 good years, but now face the challenge of why I started this shop in the first place. Should I add another qualified employee or keep working long hours doing the stuff I don't like to do.
Looks like I'm doing both for now.
Sign-cerely, Steve
-------------------- Steve Luck Sign Magic Inc. 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 (618)466-9120 signmagic@sbcglobal.net Posts: 870 | From: 2718-b Grovelin Godfrey, Illinois 62035 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
My "wants" have changed over the years. Back when I was in art school in NYC I wanted to be an artist. Our school was divided into two camps, the fine artists and the commercial artists.Those of us who were in the fine arts program used to look down on the commercial artists because they "sold out" their talents to make money. I have to laugh now because I eventually became one of those "sell outs". My life changed and I needed to make money for things like raising kids. My artistic yearnings would have to wait. Now my kids are grown and I lament all those years of not exercising my creative skills.I still took pride in my sign work but my emphasis was on getting it out the door as fast as possible. Since work has been so slow I've had time to refocus on art and it's been great. At the same time I've realized that one day I may not be physically able to work. My best shot at retirement income is to build my business into a company someone would want to buy. This means I need to sever my ties as being the lifeblood of the operation. Gradually I have been working in that direction and also devoting more time to design. I still want to be an artist some day, just not a starving artist.
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1266 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Doug explained this more clearly than I’ve ever seen when he described the difference between being self employed and running a business. For years after I started this business (in 1993) I would be told by my business advisors that I should be pleased. I had created a good job for myself. But I would always feel afterward that I wanted more. As a job, it wasn’t really all that good. For example, when I had a real job, I had a 401K with a six figure balance, growing every year. The job I created for myself burned through that in just two lean years.
If I was the craftsman that many of you are and could earn a living with my own hands, without a lot of money required to start up or keep it running, I might be happy with creating a job for myself, or in Doug’s words, being self employed.
But the truth is, like many of the members of this board, I have an interest in and a talent for, this work, but am not good enough to do it all alone. I also think the time it would take to become good enough is unwarranted, for when I get there, I will have become comfortably self employed, and that is not my goal.
As the economy declined and my volume declined this year, I have reviewed a number of options, some of which will put me solidly in the self employed class. It’s better than unemployed, but for me, far worse than creating a business with value. Those of you with the talent to thoroughly enjoy being self employed should not take this the wrong way. It may be heaven for you. It just doesn’t work for me. It’s not what I enjoy; it’s not my passion.
When I am enjoying my business, it’s growing. It’s providing jobs for people I care for, whether family or long time employees. It’s satisfying customers and improving the visual surroundings of the town in which I work and live. It integrates me with the community as a member of the local business network. And every once and a while, it allows me to design something of which I am truly proud.
But for the second time in sixteen years, my business is going through difficult times and isn’t much fun at all. Customers want cheap signs and we are known for making the best, and in customer’s minds, most expensive signs in town. Changing that perception will not be easy, even if we try. How much money do you think I want to spend to promote the fact that we now make cheap signs? I present this in black and white terms for clarity even though I know the answer is somewhere in between.
The only reason I can think of for taking the risk of running a small business is for some ultimate reward. Enjoying the ride is a given, but I want it to ultimately lead somewhere.
For me, that means building a business, not being self employed.
-------------------- Paul Luszcz Zebra Visuals 27 Water Street Plymouth, MA 02360 508 746-9200 paul@zebravisuals.com Posts: 483 | From: 27 Water Street, Plymouth, MA 02360 | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
'Doug explained this more clearly than I’ve ever seen when he described the difference between being self employed and running a business.'
Paul, I so agree!
My personal Nirvana will be when I can successfully run something I love to do, and be able to afford to do it when I wish, not only when I have to. Which in turn would allow me that time to do other things in between without relying on running a shipload of employees running a biz I have no interest in.
Beware. I have alot to say and this will be a mini book.
When I first ran my biz when I was in a life relationship and had that 2nd income for cushion, I was able to better concentrate on the creative part, rather than the dollars and cents, which in effect, became our biggest income provider due to the sheer drive from the passion I then had. I was able to grow it to the direction I desired due to not being worried. When you worry, you tend to settle. Settle for less creative work in order to earn the mighty dollar. Settle for deadlines that don't really work for you. That's when you start not liking what you're doing pretty quick. You lose focus and sight on the more experimental matters that require research if you wish to grow.
If I had that '2nd income' family once again, I'd slow down on what was bringing money in now in order to put more time into something I WANT to bring in money. But since that's not the case, I'm forced to squeeze in my passion around my money making efforts.
I know what it's like to work within a passion filled exsistence. My biz use to be just that. Trouble is, I'm morphed many times over and didn't change my biz to suit. I've been so busy focusing on my parenting passion I let the biz slip.
There's also ways of making money without having to be hands on, via investments, advertising, selling a ready made product (ie: book). Not everything out there requires two hands at all times. In this case, the biz whiz will punch forward at a quicker pace.
But you can bet, if I'm fortunate to tap into some of that, those things will be all related to selling something I love to collect in order to sell, and to publish something I had passion in writing about.
I'm not out to make oodles of money inventing a self feeding dog dish and having to promote it. I'd rather pet the dog, feed her the old fashioned way, while I'm busy writing Chapter 17 at my own speed, while my stuff is happily selling online and my advertisers are actually paying to be advertising on my site, because of my incredible online presense that is simply luring the masses in. Yup! Big dreams. Gotta start somewhere.
If you are selling what you are passionate about, it's my bet some of the more mundane biz aspects required will be much less labourous in your mind, because your heart is ultimately involved.
And for those that don't have any idea on what their current passion is, I've taken this topic to heart and have started a series on the topic, which will in turn help ME figure out mine as well. My info is coming from online resources anyone else can find.
But here's a disclaimer for you artists. My budget is nil, so, the topic is on a lousy templated background blog. I don't have a logo yet. I don't know how to make the buttons required for others to grab it and load it on their own blogs so what's there now is poorly done. My laptop is full. My other computers are dinosaurs. I have no place to load my photoshop to enhance my pics.
And I will do all that. But you have to start somewhere. And I just chose to start now because if I wait for perfection, I'll never get a move on.
Building up an online following is just one of my current goals. At 400 plus hits a day on this little no name blog, that is not bad! I am learning how to promote, keep interest high via writeups I am passionate about. I'm researching, investigating, learning photography, improving my writing skills, designing and wanting to take some night classes on things I can't help myself with on my own.
I'll be darned if my passionless money making work will win here. I'll show IT! I now must get back into VinylLand and make some money to pay for this passionate adventure.
posted
I have been thinking about giving up, buy a an excavator and take life abit easier.
Haven't posted much the last year, as I have felt pretty crap about most things which is unusual for me. I still buy books, burn to try new things, want to change direction, know exactly where I really want to go. I bought a small farm a few years ago in the middle of nowhere, would like to build a shop there and send out quality dimensional signs further a field not relying on passing trade.
Now I am on an industrial park outside of Stockholm, working from 6.00am to late monday to friday, pay all my bills, but never have much left over for me to take a proper salary, I pay my guys (major taxes and employer costs here like 70% on top of their wages) Feel like I am caught up in something I don't want to be in.
We have a similar sized shop to Dan, routers paid for, we have metal folders, shears, plasma, digital pulse welders, so do 99% of all fabrication, Roland Soljet 3 is only machine still leased 15 months left, so we don't have lots of machine costs, good building rent.
Everything built up on recomendation not much advertising apart from one online phone/search company for Sweden.
Crap website been working on a new one for ages, but although I speak swedish I am crap at writing it and need help to get that bit right.
Know that in the past we've built some great signs, but feel am stuck doing masses of mundane work to pay the bills, and thereby not doing what I want to. Had some customers that were several months late on bigger payments earlier in the year which also made life hard.
Dans a great mentor and a good friend, but I have kept myself to myself for months, as I haven't been able to even get to building new sample signs, the days are just not long enough. I know by building a load of new signs I can sell up jobs, but must have the hours left to do that, people already complain that we sometimes are bad at getting back to them. Too many small crap jobs, but from past experience some of those crap jobs have yielded $40,000 orders from the same customer, so at tmes its hard to judge things on first meeting.
I am obviously doing something wrong, not very business minded, always worried about charging too much (not getting the work to pay the bills!) Am a natural worrier, have problems organising, adhd. Against all that I have been doing this since 92, and kept my head above water, just want time to play with the toys in the shop and make and sell what I want to make.
From talking to some other well known dimensional signmakers, I know I am not alone, others are also about down on, what work is available. I guess if you can have an aluminium 8x4 for $500 compared to $3000 for a dimensional sign, when times are tight you take the simple option.
Here's hoping to make some changes. I think I need another Yarrow inspiration injection, its been really great to come to Canada the last couple of falls, I wont make it this year, but hope to visit again soon in the near future.
posted
Henry...it's good to see you again. You have been missed.
And, yes, you are right. You are not alone. There are many of us (including me) that are experiencing your same thoughts.
When times are tough you tend to become paralyzed - afraid to move in any direction out of fear that it will be the wrong move. The mundane becomes normal and you begin to doubt your skills, both design and mechanical. Little things upset you more than usual and a negative atmosphere creeps in more often than usual.
Not a pretty sight.
For the past year we have been standing on our tip-toes with our nose stretched out just above the water. We are overcome for a while, but manage to again get a breath, but only for a short time and then we are drowning again.
Like you Henry, I miss that positive laughter from Yarrow.
It will change for the better....I'm sure. In the meantime I just hope that my fingernails hold out.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Happy Yarrow is simply an illusion, folks. Worrisome stuff still prevails here too. My tile still isn't done and Dan still isn't driving a John Deere tractor. Bad bad stuff!
Anyone can create a Happy Yarrow experience. Start finding and bonding with those geographically closer to you. Good friends truely do make the world go round.
But that takes effort too. Ask me how I know.
My thick skull is slowly discovering, we are right where we are due to us. And you have to invest to create change. Whether that's time or funds, it's a necessary step.
I spent 3 hours (I should have been sleeping) grabbing these online pics I thought would be the cat's meow for ideas I have. Turns out they won't work. I lost sleep, have a wadful of useless pics, and sometimes it doesn't seem like the effort of change is worth it.
But I learned one small lesson in that exercise. And from there, I take that lesson and move on and try again. (I now know to test what I'm downloading prior.. duh)
Investing in new friends is the same deal. It's our friendships in Letterville that keep us coming back to this place. This is easy and effortless. But placing your feet on your front door step and taking a leap, (that would be a Happy Yarrow leap of course) that requires effort. But I'm pretty certain it can pay off if the effort is made. You just have to find the right ones for you.
There are also chapters in life it seems. Seasons change as do our chapters. You're in the middle of a great story, things are clicking along, life is good, when the chapter suddenly ends and you're on a new page. Problem is, scenes have changed and characters are different. Unknown territory looms ahead. Do you have the courage to go forth, or chose to backtrack?
Maintain the good from your past of course, but learn to let go of what is hurtful and forge ahead. MAKE your surroundings work. It is hard, but it is also critical for future successess. And I am pushing myself out my own door in order to do just that.
Low income is troublesome! Being stuck in a rut work wise equally so. Desiring signmaker personal contact appears constant, but not always available to you. So, what are you going to do about it? Wishing and moping (I'm guilty!) won't get you there. Just do.
I'll let you know when my next Happy Yarrow workshop takes place. Location: buried inside another hidden Letterville post on a monitor screen near you no doubt.
edited to add: I miss all of you too. And I'm in YARROW!
[ September 11, 2009, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Donna in BC ]
posted
Wow! Dan...Look what you started and where it went!
Oh such good stuff, Doug and Sean and everyone else. (Sean, I need to call you the next time I come to the Bay Area and we can swamp stories and connect.) So much passion we all have and so often the gray area of art vs. business. Or does it have to be "vs" at all? Us right-brainers have so much trouble with that left brain stuff. Over the years of working, growing, trying and struggling as a single mom trying to have quality time with my daughter and grow my business working out of my home; I came to many conclusions and compromises in what I was doing. I was the one that went to art school too, Jean, and thought the same as you. I didn't want to "sell out" or live from deadline to deadline. I just wanted to teach art. Oops...no teaching jobs available. Now what? I wanna make money doing something artistic. And somehow I evolved to painting signs. I could do it at home and make more money doing this in a small town than working at some go-no-where job. So poof! I was a sign painter...living from deadline to deadline. Then I wanted to be a sign artist like those guys I met in 1986 at my first Letterhead meet. Yah! I wanna be like them when I grow up....Long story short...If success means making beautiful signs that stand out in my community, then I am. If success means planning for a retirement, taking great vacations, keeping employees employed and happy and running a great set of books...Then...Oops. I am not. So now...Know what I want and what is my passion? I'm workin' on it. I think it's a constant state of evolution. Right now, as I approach the big 6-0 and look back on the things in my business that have given my passion fuel...it has been using my creative juices to help other people develop their passions...whether it be by my painting, my teaching, my designs, or my passion for life. I am so in touch with the fact that I love to paint murals more than anything else...but my knees remind me daily that I better start lookin' at my alternatives.
So here's where you guys and other artists come in...because artists coming together to share and grow is absolutely the greatest feeling...as we still get our hearts pumping at the thought of Pontiac and what we we left in out wake. My new passion and focus is creating a workshop space at my studio where I can bring well known specialist artists of various fields of expertise to teach their passion; advertise it nationally to interested artst/students to come and learn and create and expand their passions. We live in the Gold Rush area of the foothills of California. Rich in our history and the beauty of northern CA. I want to have workshops in my studio for expanding our artistic minds... and the other part of the month...paint what I want to paint and do the signs that I feel reward me, artistically and financially. To this, I commit my energies and plan to utilize all my connections that I have made over the years to bring all kinds of artists to my front door to teach, to paint, to relish in the learning process and to share in our passions.
Otherwise...the arthritis in my knees and hands will get the upper hand...so to speak, and my passions will dissolve and I'll be a bitter old X-sign artist with a portfolio full of my past. So I am working on actually doing a business plan, marketing plan, financial plan and getting help to make it happen...cuz I'm a right-brainer with minimal left brain capabilities. I never did a business plan to be a sign artist...I just fell into it and thought it would be fun. It has been and I love it. But as with anything, the computerized world has made a difference in my perceptions of what I do and how I do it. So, in order to retain my artistic passion...working with paint and getting dirty, I must evolve for my passions.
And as the saying goes...If it's meant to be, it's up to me. Knowing what you want is the first step in making it happen.
-------------------- Judy Grossman JG Signs & Designs 226 W. Jackson St. Sonora, CA 95370 Posts: 207 | From: Sonora, CA, USA | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Actually, I am doing what I FEEL like doing right now. I have had Lupus for a few years, & sometimes I have no energy, & sometimes I hurt. When I get like this, in what they call a "flare", I lose inspiration, & the desire to do anything. Fortunately for me, the Lord seems to know this too, because usually when I am not feeling well, my business slows.
So, lately, I have been walking in the woods, (the doctors say excercise is a MUST, or I can lose it)& riding our Sportster with my hubby & my parents. They are 69-73, & ride a V Rod. Sounds like a lot, but no, it is actually very relaxing to me, long as I don't OVER do it. We were at a bike thing today, & seeing the stripes was getting me going a bit too.
I had not picked up a brush for a few months, & a woman up in the mountains asked me to paint her a small 1'x2' sign for her pond, so I did, & we traded for veggies! This little sign had stirred my inspiration up again, & after seeing the bikes today, I think I am ready to get back into it.
I am content with what I do, & so glad I am getting back into it again after some needed rest.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
After 6 days on the road to do an install in Edmonton I am finally back in the shop. Our worksite was a 14 hour drive one way, giving me plenty of time to think and plan for the future and reflect on the past too.
Even I need to constantly remind myself that large goals are not instantly accomplished. We will never seem to find the time nor funds to do these things all at once. Instead we need to take small bite-size steps each day. Sometimes our goals will seem unachievable when we slide backwards but we can't give up.
We all have a few minutes each day to work on our goals... and over time we can find ourselves much closer than we imagined possible.
We recently did a mid year review of our business for insurance purposes and I was pleasantly surpirsed with our progress in this tough economy. While not yet at our income goal we were surprisingly close... in the last 12 months we have not had any large theme park work. The dimensional and themed signs have taken over our business. It was a planned and purposeful shift of our focus - a five year plan pushed into immediate action. Many thought it was impossible to sell the amount of high end work we needed to to replace our previous market... but we are doing it - one small project at a time.
While it is certainly a bumpy road at times we ARE already living the dream in Yarrow...
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's funny you folks are talking about this. Good topic Dan. If anyone would have asked me the last 2-3 years are you doing what you want to be doing I would have had this little cloud come through my mind- you know, like Schultz had on Charlie Brown when he was depressed or sad. His head went down and this little squiggly cloud sat above his head. Because that is exactly how I have been feeling for the last couple of years.
Oh its Monday. Gotta work. Sigh. Even have considered getting a real job. But just in the last week I think I'm finally getting to the curve of the hill.
Picking up speed so to speak.
The last couple of years have been my most profitable. But I had lost my vitality for the business. CUstomers were all pains in the right cheek.
For the last two days I have been standing out in the shop on my bandsaw. Trying to figure out whether I want to sub more stuff out. Doin the Math, how long does this take, how long does that when I realized I loved standing out there cutting signfoam into filigree.
I think I' back. ...............at least I hope so.
Going to clean the shop tomorrow so I won't be so distracted. It always helps me to focus if I don't have to look for things.
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I dropped in with a quick, glib response last week - then, reading all these thoughtful responses, decided this thread was worth better than that.
Today I came in to work on a couplr of projects. One is a carved sign that gets a crown molding. I love the look of these, classy and substantial, and have refined the technique of building them. I often think about farming these out to a local woodworker I know - he is old-world Italian and the most meticulous craftman I have ever met - but then I tell myself "I can do that!" -and do it.
This sign is to hang on a single post/figure four support. My pet peeve with these is that most of them start to sag after a year or so. I came up with a couple of interesting solutions and spent a chunk of the afternoon working on them. That's the sort of creative problem solving I love to do on a dull gray Saturday in September. Call it work if you want....
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
This song seemed really fitting for this post. I chose this clip so you could concentrate on the words, rather than the visuals.
We all strive to be in an ultimate place of doing what we love as a result of our efforts. But no matter where we are in life, as we learn and move forward, we continue to climb.
posted
Like Cam, I also added a quick response earlier. I just spent half an hour reading all of the following replies.
It seems that a lot of folks "fell" into the signmaking business, myself included. Some are wildly creative, some aren't. Some have made a ton of money, some haven't. I can imagine that almost all have felt the effects of the last year's economic decline.
I had spent many years "getting by" as a self employed body shop owner by the time I "fell" into the business of signmaking. I did both jobs for a while, but after a couple of years the sign work took over from the bodywork.
One of the reasons it did was that a local retired sign painter, who is a friend, but who also nicknamed me the "applicator" (applying vinyl instead of picking up a brush, even though he had had a cutter too) gave me some good advice.
Don't undercut your prices, no matter what!
That was what I had been doing in my previous business, undercutting myself just to keep the cashflow flowing. It didn't work.
He was retired from signmaking and living well so I figured he knew what he was talking about. He kinda became my "hero".
Another "hero" was a lady bank manager who convinced me that suffering a bit while working, by investing money on a regular scheduled basis (automatic transfers) would result in huge returns later in my life. She was correct. But I can't remember how many times I was tempted to either cancel those automatic withdrawals or even withdraw some of the savings when times got tough. Thankfully, I didn't.
I hear everyone saying the word "passion" and I understand where they are coming from. I had passion to create some nice signage too. But, I also had a passion to plan for my future. I'm now at an age where arthritis is starting to make itself known. I need to take a few pills each day. The body does get tired as we age. I wanted to be able to take it easy once that started happening.
Yes, I had Shirley to help with income for most of the last 28 years and I am eternally grateful to her.
Everyone is different and their aims and objectives are all different.
I, and Shirley, met our aims and we are proud of the fact we did.
Do I regret retiring and leaving the sign business? YES, in a way. I loved the work and would willingly do it again on a part time basis. But you can't run a business part-time.
Do I regret retiring? NO, after 63 years of winter snow and cold, I figure I deserve to be comfortable in the winter.
Different strokes for different folks. I respect and understand those who wish to to continue creating and working until they can no longer do it. I chose a different route.
Peace
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Even those of us who desire to work until we can no longer hold a brush are wise to have a plan 'B". Stuff happens.
Although we purposely chose NOT to invest our money in a formal retirement plan we did invest in our future. In our case it was our own businesses. I wanted to be in control of our money and where it was going.
Our second business (Giggle Ridge Adventure Golf) was built to showcase our work AND to provide an income/investment return along the way. It has done both well. We built it 10 years ago and are now in the process of selling it to phase into our version of 'retirement'. When it sells, the returns will retire all of our debt and have enough left to build most of a new house. That transfers our investment to our current house/business property. While its not a liquid investment, it will provide us with a place to work at very little cost for many years to come. And it is the dream place to work and live. It doesn't get better than that (for us). Sittng on a beach in Mexico for more than a few days wouldn't be my cup of tea.
Once our second busines is gone we will not have to work too hard to live well and even save - especially without a mortgage at long last. Business will afford us the ability to travel and be creative while having fun - at a much more leisurely pace than we have done in the past.
When we really want to slow down, our good sized property which is in the center of town will be a prized piece to sell or subdivide... providing more than enough income for our old age and to pass on to the kids.
There are many routes to a safe and happy retirement but you do have to plan.
But in this post I'm not talking about what you might do or not do when you get old... I'm talking about living and working in a happy place each day along the way.
Are you doing what you love... or at least making positive progress towards that goal each day???
Living the dream in Yarrow...
-grampa dan
[ September 14, 2009, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dan..You are doing sortta what Shirl and I did. But in a different way.
Our home sale helped our plans just like the sale of Giggle Ridge will help yours.
I felt VERY happy doing what I wanted to do. Shirl got tired of me saying "Hey look at this idea"
Sorry that I hijacked the post Dan..you were asking ONLY current working sign folks.
And as usual it was a great thread. I hope I didn't offend the regular folks.
[ September 14, 2009, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I hate the business side of signs. If I had my druthers, I would do nothing but design and fabrication. Between those two, designing is what Id like to do fulltime. I dont like keeping books, doing invoicing, etc. But being a one man shop, I have to do it all. And at night, I go home and work on art related projects for clients. It seems I am never not doing something, and that does get old. But, Im making a living, and I aint gonna gripe about that. My dream a few years back was to be a fulltime cartoonist, but I always worried about getting enough work, so I kept doing signs and did the cartooning on the side. Both parts of the business have done okay this year, but I let stress get the best of me awhile back, and had to cut back on eveything a little bit. I tend to push too hard, and when things back up, I get flustered and that aint good. Never have dealt with stress too well, but Im doing better now, and staying busy, so all is good. Maybe before I get too old, Cartooning will come to the forefront and I can make enough from that to make a nice living, but until that happens, Ill keep doing it all. Like that ZZ Top song, Im nationwide, cept Im Diversified.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
| IP: Logged |
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
) ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
) and I was ready for one!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Works for us!
Printer-friendly view of this topic