posted
Well, we've now had our CNC router 4 years. Instead of buying it outright we decided to lease, with a small buyout payment at the end. This allowed us to write the router off in its entirety instead of depreciating it over a longer period. It made sense at the time.
In reality, the router didn't take long to pay for itself for we had some great big projects in the first couple of years we owned it. We are glad however to see the last of the payments behind us!
Now that the router is ours at last I decided to write my thoughts about owning one - from first hand experience.
After much research and talking to many folks who already owned one, we purchased a high end router - one with all the bells and whistles - auto tool changer, 11 hp spindle, vacuum hold down, mister, the works - with a price tag to match. The financing/lease, top end software, shipping, duty, taxes, and installation added a bunch more to the total price tag. Exchange rates at the time were well in excess of 20 % as the Canadian dollar was low back then and that alone grew the total in a hurry!. The major purchase was a very big bite for us.
Now that we have owned it for four years and the last payment has been made the question to be asked is - was it worth it? I'd have to say a resounding yes!
I would do a few things differently if it happened over... Turns out for the type of routering we do ( primarily 30lb Precision Board) a 5 HP spindle would have been adequate. This would have made the machine a little quieter. The mister I included in the purchase has yet to be used but that might change some day if I decide to whittle some aluminum.
I'm glad I went for quality as the router is still in primo condition and should run for many, many years yet. From here on in it should run with few costs, save the tooling and the power to turn it on when its needed.
Now that I've had the machine for 4 years the novelty of the machine has certainly worn off - although it will be a long while before I stop learning to do cool new things with the machine. I suspect I'll never really find the limits of what it can do.
In the next month or so we'll be moving the machine from our main shop to a back room to make things a little quieter and to lessen the dust out in the shop. It will also remove the machine from the public's eye on the occasion we offer our customers tours of our shop. That will keep more magic and mystery in what we create.
Our CNC router has added many new capabilities for us as well as precision and speed we could previously only imagine. The router has allowed us to do some amazing projects in the last four years. Best of all it allows me to work on my own and it does it while I do other things.
As I gather experience I know better now when it is best to use the machine, when to leave it turned off, and when to use it to do the grunt work, leaving the fun detailing to my hands.
Buying a router meant I had to instantly jump to light speed, figuring out how to draw and modify vectors... how to build complex 3D files, and how to adapt my previous knowlege of bitmaps to their full advantage. Its been a fun ride over these last four years!
Just imagine where we will be in four more years in Yarrow...
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'm sure you are aware of the influence that you, your posts, your workshops & mostly your creative zeal has had on my decision to acquire similar tools & features.
I think my first paying job came off the router about 1 year ago. It has been a year busy with other growth related distractions & demands, but the CNC has provided me with a huge dose of renewed excitement about the range of possibilities for me to stay challenged, continue evolving as a person, an artist & a business owner, and to position myself to become a unique source of solutions not readily available to my clients anywhere else.
I am always pleased to hear of your accomplishments, and your creative growth, and now it is both inspiring & reassuring when I do, because I hope to use the lessons you share to continue to offer guidance as I strive to make sure I will stay as pleased with my investment over the coming years as I am today.
I've done several really exciting things just this past month, and the rate of general use, as well as new explorations just keeps going up on an ever increasing steep curve of discovery.
posted
Great post! I agree with Doug that your shared inside views mean a lot to any person thinking of buying a router to do 3d work. It is also good to read that you would change your 10hp into a 5hp spindle. I had some offers made by TechnoCNC and Multicam, with some of the specifications made earlier on this board and they told me not to use 10hp or a toolchanger if I am on a budget. The toolchanger could save me about 10.000 - 15.000 dollars and they said that in Europe it is illegal, due to insurance pollicies, to leave a router work unattended because of uninsured firerisks. So one of the salesman agrued that for 10.000 dollars I good change a tool a lot of times, which only should take 3 minutes.... Furthermore the point of buying a vacuumtable (if I am correct also about 10.000 dollars) for a lot of money is made clear, because I was told that one can make it very easily himself using stuff at a local plumbingshop and the router itself.
In other words: Good advise allways gives more questions. I wish I was in a four year retroflection and knew exactly what to do or buy.
posted
Ya time flies. Our Sabre is 8 years old and still works 5 days a week with no complaints. I'm in agreement with the guys that a 10 HP spindle is overkill. A tool changer certainly isn't needed in making the signs we do. The vacuum table is a wonderful option tough, and personally I wouldn't try to jury rig a home made one. Don't skimp on the vacuum pump. Our's is a 10 HP and works fine. For dust pick up we use a regular 5 gallon shop vac. It work just fine. If a small piece that you need gets sucked up, you can usually find it easily in the vac. What kind of work do you do Erik?
posted
I have the tool changer & besides running out for coffee, I have not used it to allow me to leave the router running unattended, but one of my theories is that even with the less advanced files I am preparing today, 3 tool changes is not unheard of, & 3 hour jobs are not unheard of either.
While a tool change may only take 3 minutes, in my shop, it would be easy to be caught up in something else & losing up to an hour remembering to check if it's time for a tool change. With my pump, compressor & dust collection running, I can't hear when the router stops cutting.
I just did the math & my tool changer is 15% of my equipment cost (not counting the build-out, compressor of dust collection) Based on the monthly payment on my equipment lease, I'm paying $250/month for the tool changer, or about $10 a business day.
There could easily be days that I wouldn't be able to leave at 5pm, because I got distracted by other business & left a tool change waiting to happen. Besides that, $10 a day isn't very hard to justify anyway... plus after 5 years it's paid for, and by then I might be programming amazing files I can't even comprehend today... with lots more tool changes during production. As you probably know, (at least with Multicam) the tool changer is not an add-on option, so if you don't get it up front, you will never have it on that machine.
posted
Ducan, Erik does not do 3d work yet. My bussiness at the moment is primarely 2d and rather commercial. My goal is to make 3d work, not for bussiness sake, but for my state of mind. I can not see my self making the same 'boring' (high quality though) stuff we do now, for ever. If I will do the deal, I will buy a good vacuum pump, but probably make the vacuum table myself (this idea has been made by a salesman to save me money???)....
Doug, The toolchanger thing keeps on bugging me, I can not make up my mind. Dan said that it was his prefered accesoire, but other people say that if I want to do somethin about my budget, this is one thing to work on, because I also allways need to attent the machine while running. I do not think that this wil be practical, since 3d jobs tkae hours and hours. I can allready see myself watching the machine running and runnig for hours untill the early morning with my head bumping synchrome with the spindle up and down.... For now I only making samples, because 2,5d and especially 3d is totally unknown here in the Netherlands. Here is a sign I made recently: http://www.ferrywinkler.nl/american_styled_bord/
posted
There are several folks here that can trace their decision to buy a router back to Dan...me, for one.
Although mine was considerably less expensive than Sawatzky's, it still has paid for itself and continues to make me money. Mine also has a tool changer but didn't cost any extra - it's typing this message right now also.
My decision to buy a ShopBot has never been questioned....I would do the same thing all over again.
My spindle is 3HP and is more than adequate to work in HDU and MDO, which is our main materials, along with some Dibond.
I've still got a few more payments to go.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Well said Raymond. Although I bought my router and then found Dan, it wouldn't be nearly as busy if it wasn't for Dan and his Router Magic school. Thanks Dan!
-------------------- Cody Reich Columbia Signs Posts: 300 | From: Vancouver, WA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Because of our router purchase, our journey of discovery and the subsequent exposure we were instantly in touch with a LOT of great folks who wanted to try this type of magic on their routers, or to get information about the possible purchase of such a machine.
The good result of that was the many friends we have made along that journey. These folks share the same passion to learn. As we became friends we soon found much more in common too.
Its been a very fun journey!
To answer Erik's queries regarding a tool changer... while an automatic tool changer is nice (and convenient too) it certainly isn't something I would put off a router purchase for. It's an expensive option - no matter which machine you may ultimately purchase.
In doing detailed three dimensional and textured projects I generally plan the work so I can watch (from afar) while it does the roughing with the larger bit. This step doesn't take long as a rule. If something drastic is going to go wrong with the file it will show up at this stage. When the machine is ready for the tool change (to the small tool) I can go in for the evening, or go mow the lawn, popping back to the shop to check periodically. The small bit (final pass) is the one that will run for hours and hours on end. It also needs the least amount of watching for the chip load is small and the overlap is also tiny. Lack of a tool changer wouldn't change my plan of attack.
A router without a tool changer will not affect the type of work you can do nor the quality your router will put out.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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