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I'm repainting a sign I did many years ago. It's sandblasted, and I goldleafed some of the scrolls, rules and other embellishments that were raised and flat surfaces on the sign.
I love the sign, but the gold just never "popped" and shined as well as I wished it had. Still looked great, but I knew it could have been better.
Now that I get to refurbish this sign, I want to try something different with the gold portion of it.
My first thought was was to try this Liquid gold stuff by Ronan. Anyone with some feedback on that, I'm all ears.
I would also like to investigate that resin stuff that will put a raised, rounded and hard surface on the areas I am to guild. Has anyone used it? I would like to know more about it, and also where to get it. Hopefully a source close to me. Heck, I don't even know what the stuff is called!!!
I'm on a deadline on this job, so of course, would need to have things in place to gild by this weekend.
Any insight would be GREATLY appreciated.
~nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
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I've used Ronan Aqua Leaf and it's the best gold paint I've ever seen. The color I used said to prime the substrate white first. Believe it! The stuff doesn't cover worth a flip and if you don't go over white, you'll be repainting the rest of your life.
I have used various resins to dome letters for about twenty-five years. Some of the early resins I used didn't hold up in the outdoors and cracked after a few years. They also weren't flexible and would pull bits out of the wood as the sign expanded and contracted. I contacted 3M, asking for a UV stable, flexible, low viscosity epoxy with at least an hour pot life and they sent me several samples, which I tried on a sign renovation.
The one that worked best over all was Scotch-Weld DP-190 Gray, which is in a duo-pak for use in an EPX applicator. I wish it was a bit less viscous to flow out better on the letters but it has the outdoor durability and flexibility needed. R. S. Hughes carries it. Their Tampa location's phone number is (813) 882-4755. Don't buy much more than you'll need. It has a shelf life of less than a year. Get extra of the plastic plungers for the applicator since the teeth on them strip easily. The resin comes in 1.7 oz. tubes, which will dome about two to four 6" letters each. The tubes are pricey, probably at least $15.00 each.
I squirt it out on the letters and also use sharpened Popsicle sticks to drag it out to the edges. You don't need to dome very high to get a nice effect. If some runs over the edge, wait a few hours and dig it out. If you time everything perfectly, you can gild directly on the resin when it is at the right tack for stunning results, however, I have found hitting that exact moment problematic. Now, I let it set up, wipe with alcohol or Rapid Prep, then sand with fine sandpaper, wipe again, size and gild. If you get bubbles in the resin as you work, breathing on them helps pop them. Also, a quick pass with a propane torch will do the trick. Judicious use of the torch will also momentarily thin the resin so it flows out a little more smoothly on large areas. Be careful with using the torch to thin, too much heat will set up a skin over portions of the epoxy.
West Systems has a relatively new flexible outdoor epoxy called G/flex, which seems to have all the qualities I want. I've used it on other things but not yet on domed letters, although the next batch I do will be done with G/flex. Even with overnight shipping charges, you might spend less than on the DP-190 and applicator. If you use G/flex, get their standard stuff, not the thickened version. I think the G/flex was about $50 for a quart kit, plus shipping. G/flex has an open time of 45 minutes. You could mix a small batch and put it in a squeeze bottle to apply to your letters. I'd only mix what I could use in 30 minutes.
G/flex will also adhere polyethylene if the plastic has been flame treated.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Nettie, I've use PB Resin for years, ever since Joe Crumley put me onto it. No problems yet. In fact, I virtually never gild flat for the same reason you mentioned. It works best on letter-strokes less than 1" wide. It's easy to work with although there are a few "quirks" like anything else. You can dome on a flat surface as well with a paintmask although you have to keep watch on it. Heat & humidity really shorten the time you can leave the mask on. It's made by Precision Board. Most of their distributors carry it.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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...You can also use slower drying, "Super strength" epoxy (from the hard ware store). Don't use the 5 minute type. Don't lay it too fast. Do small areas at a time. Even the slow sets up qiuck. Make an experiment panel, so that you will be aware of its time and handling limitations. After about an hour it gets firm enough, and you can trim away any (hopefully small) boo boos w. an exacto knife or razor blade. The next day it will be hard and ready to gild.
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Wow David, you went above and beyond in your answer, and I very much appreciate being able to learn from your experimentations thaer.
I checked my supplier's catalog, and didn't see anything called Aqua Leaf from Ronan, only liquid gold. Is it the same thing? I will call them today and ask.
I will also see if I can get some product info from the others you all mentions above.
Billy, is the epoxy actually called Super Strength, or does it go by a differnt name depending on the hardware store carrying it?
Thanks a bunch. Gotta a love a good learning curve during a deadline. haha Wish me luck. I'll let you all know what I do and how it goes.
Really appreciate your help guys!
~nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
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...PB resin is way over priced, and NOT available at LOWES. Get the epoxy in the two large plastic squeeze bottles. Avoid the 5 minute stuff, It won't 'flow out' right. ...And if you want the max shine, use gold leaf (the real thing) instead of any paint.
posted
We have used PB Resin from Coastal Enterprises for years and have discovered no problems. From experience we found that the hotter the weather the more "runy" it is, so we keep it in our air conditioned part of the shop. Also, we apply it at the end of the day so there is less chance of getting dust in the epoxy. Make sure the letters are on a level surface. Any bubbles that form are quickly removed with a quick spritz of isopropyl alcohol.
PB Resin must be painted or gold leafed when used outside - it will turn yellow otherwise.
For information you can contact Kellie Miller (800-845-0745) at Coastal. She knows everything.
Like David said, the best gold (or copper) paint we've found is Ronan Aqua Leaf - water based. It has to be cleared and Ronan makes a water based clear called Aqua Leaf Guard. I bought mine from Gary Anderson when he had Rhino paints, but you would just have to search for a supplier. Maybe someone here could be or more help than me.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Janette, I have used Gorilla Glue on several jobs the last two or three years. I gives a very textured look which I like for gold leaf. Just don't put too much on, it only takes a thin coat since it expands. The texture catches light from any angle so it seems to glow from more viewing angles whereas a flat or even a domed finish can be dark at some angles. I did a couple of sandblasted signs using waterproof wood glue over the letters. It gave a bit more of a dome than flat but it has started to peel from my address sign after about three years. The gorilla glue method has held up well.
-------------------- Chuck Peterson Designs San Diego, CA Posts: 1050 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I like the liquid gold... it's heavier bodied than the aqua gold. (I like the aqua gold too but) I've been using the liquid gold under gilds too (hides holidays)
on this sign the top is 23k but the bottom panel is the liquid gold... not as bright but nice
in your sign maybe some creative burnishing could help it pop? (I know nothing about doming)
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I ordered the liquid gold and some gold leaf from N.Glantz this morning, and it will be delivered today. I'm going to try to get some epoxy today from that company David mentioned in Tampa for some doming.
I think I'm going to do a little experimenting with both of these methods before actually doing anything on the signs.
I'll keep you posted. Thanks so much for your help. You guys are priceless.
~nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
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Update: Got the Liquid Gold and for 70 bux per quart I was really not impressed. To me it just seemed alot like one shot metalic gold.
I did not get the stuff from Scotch Weld DP-190 Gray because the price was pretty steep too. Especially for the applicator. 46 bux ... Yikes!
I ran down to the local West Marine this morning and got the stuff by West Systems ... the G/Flex.
I got home, stirred some up, and applied to some old signs I had in the shop with a popcycle stick (considerably cheaper than an applicator. ) The stuff hasn't totally set up yet, as I just did it about an hour ago, but it's looking good. Keeping my fingers crossed here that I can try some gilding here with them this weekend.
I'll keep you posted. Wish me luck. haha
~nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
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I'm pretty frustrated over here, as I usually am when trying to leaf, (gold leafing has never comes easily for me)
Okay, the resin is still pretty tacky. Hard when I tap it with my fingernail, but tacky to the touch. I thought I'd try to gild a sample over it to see what it does though, and it's just dull. Also, it's laying unevenly with quite abit of holidays.
So .... do I size over the resin with quick dry size, or do I have to wait for it to dry completely before I size over it?
The sample resin I did two days ago is still tacky. This is scaring me.
Of course, there is the matter of the deadline here, so I'm feeling some pressure. I have a lot of area to gild.
I kinda gotta sick feeling in my gut.
~nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
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okay, I just got off the phone w/ Joe Rees (I just love that guy) and he suggested I wipe the surface down with alchohol, because he says sometimes there is a residue that comes to the top. I'm doing that, and it's looking like I'm making some headway.
whew ... okay, wish me luck.
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
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I know this thread is becoming "nettie's play by play" here, but I just gotta say things are looking up. I just gilded the first embellishment, and it looks good! YAAAAHOOOOO!
Okay, so maybe I MIGHT be getting the hang of this gold leaf thing?
Incidentally, Joe suggested I rub the size on with a rag, as it'll be ready for gilding in a shorter period of time. I did that using quick dry size and I gilded over it in about 30 minutes. Cool Beans! Still trying to find that ideal tack level here, but I'm getting close. My gild is actually shining.
and .... I'm learning doming! How cool is that?
Inspired and recharged here in St. Pete. ~nettie
(guess there is hope for me yet eh?)
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
) The stuff hasn't totally set up yet, as I just did it about an hour ago, but it's looking good. Keeping my fingers crossed here that I can try some gilding here with them this weekend.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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