posted April 06, 2009 02:45 PM
I am wondering if anyone has tried using one shot SPEED DRY UV ACRYLIC CLEAR to act as a size for reverse gilding using copperleaf? I used one shot gold size before on a sample piece and now two years later it looks as if the copper has been discolored by it. Or has anyone tried 'Wundasize' on glass as that is a real sticky product which would have the strength to hold copperleaf but would it discolor the leaf over time? and does wundasize stick to glass.
any thoughts I am doing the work tomorrow.
-------------------- Miles Cullinane, Cork, Ireland.
From the sometimes sunny south of Ireland, Posts: 913 | From: Cork, Ireland | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted April 06, 2009 04:23 PM
If the copper is touching any One Shot paint, the sulphur in the One Shot will tarnish it. You need a barrier of shellac, I believe, between the copper & any one shot paint.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted April 06, 2009 05:39 PM
There is no way that copper won't oxidize. Period. If you surface it, you can clear coat it within a couple days and it won't show tarnish. But if you put it on glass and coat it from behind, it will still tarnish from the front. I used real silver leaf (first and last time I did that) on a window and had to re-do the whole thing. Tarnished from the front. Later I was talking to Rick glawson...he told me NEVER use silver or copper on a window...it will tarnish. Expensive learning curve on that job. It won't matter what size you use.
-------------------- Judy Grossman JG Signs & Designs 226 W. Jackson St. Sonora, CA 95370 Posts: 207 | From: Sonora, CA, USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted April 06, 2009 06:38 PM
Listen to that one, Miles. I don't know any way to keep the copper from tarnishing. Do you have to use it?...no alternatives?
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted April 07, 2009 03:51 AM
I hear that Dale, but since I have seen my samples tarnish and they aren't that bad I think I am going to give it a try by using wundasize as a size then shellac the back and then back up. if it does tarnish I will explain it as part of the nature of that particular leaf. Also it will be a test to see what happens.
thanks everyone for the help.
-------------------- Miles Cullinane, Cork, Ireland.
From the sometimes sunny south of Ireland, Posts: 913 | From: Cork, Ireland | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted April 07, 2009 09:19 AM
Interesting topic Miles- I wish you luck with the job. I used Varigated copper on my shop vehicle- shellac coat- clear coat- more clear coat and even more clear coat.... and that still tarnishes.
posted April 07, 2009 09:33 AM
rick told me he used wundasize when applying copper to the back of glass as the solvents in oil size trapped by the leaf will cause tarnishing. i've seen very minor discolouration with wonda or rollco aqualeaf, but very little and i think it was a bit wet, none with a longer dry time, biggest problem is getting it on without brush marks, it has very poor flowout. I also have coated the glass with a thin coat of orange shellac prior to size to warm up the colour of copper and comp leaf on reverse glass. I have made really strong water size, say about 10 diamonds to a pint of water with limited sucess for copper, let us know how it goes!
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
posted April 07, 2009 09:46 AM
Well, if copper leaf tarnishes on glass/water size or oil size, AND surface gilding on a vehicle, then why do they sell it? What CAN it be used for, safely?
I LOVE the color of it, just bought some, want to USE IT!!!!
I'm watching this one too!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted April 07, 2009 01:42 PM
well it went on okay and I have given it a coat of shellac, I am going repeat leafing tomorrow with wundasize then shellac then back-up color then blacken out the whole area as it is the required interior finish.
Pete I know what you mean about brush marks but since this is a quarter inch line It can't be generally seen.
thanks again for all the help. I will report any major change if it happens
-------------------- Miles Cullinane, Cork, Ireland.
From the sometimes sunny south of Ireland, Posts: 913 | From: Cork, Ireland | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted April 07, 2009 05:46 PM
Copper CAN be used without tarnishing. I've had it on the cove edges of a carved sign, coated with Frogjuice, that kept its color for at least eight years. I also have some on my shop window, that has tarnished a bit, but it went on with 1-shot quick size (I think - its been years) and was also backed up with FJ.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted April 07, 2009 07:19 PM
I have a couple sandblasted signs that I did a bunch of copper leaf on and cleared with frogjuice and rolco clear, tried it with both. both work great. Have it on my truck and cleared it with acrylic clear for vehicles. It tarnished a bit, cuz I waited too long to clear. But it still shines great after three years. I must admit, I put silver leaf with regular water size...young and naive is my excuse at the time. The BB wasn't around then. I love copper on signs and so do my clients...just gotta clear it fast and it's so much thicker than gold that it can be a pain to work with sometimes. I have artwork that I did 4 years ago and clearer 3 times with Bullseye shellac and it's fine. I will really be interested in what your test pieces do. If it's gonna tarnish, it should start in a week or so. Can't wait to hear what it does.... Cam...can't wait to meet you in Pontiac!
-------------------- Judy Grossman JG Signs & Designs 226 W. Jackson St. Sonora, CA 95370 Posts: 207 | From: Sonora, CA, USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted April 07, 2009 09:08 PM
I used to do a lot with Varigated leaf, which I think is just copper leaf which has been heated to give it the color....cleared with automotive clears of different types....no problems...
-------------------- Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain ! Jim Moser Design 13342 C Grass Valley Ave. Grass Valley, Ca. 95945 530-273-7615 jwmoser@att.net Posts: 488 | From: Grass Valley, Ca. | Registered: May 2006
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