posted
I know this has been an ongoing problem. I'm about totally fed up with it now. It's JUNK! USELESS! I am ready to start using RUSTOLEUM or something similar. Anything! I had two customers call me today telling me the lettering, and striping that I had done on their vehicles was faded out. They aren't even two years old! I have seen jobs that I've done within a year be flat, and faded. This is rediculous. I have spoken to a couple of 1 SHOT "reps". They give me the same stories (excuses) that I have been hearing about this problem for the last few years. Oh, it's a bad batch; they have sent new product out; the distributors got recall notices; etc. etc. All I see is the problem getting worse. Now it's costing me time, $$$, and my reputation (whatever that's worth??). Is there anything anyone can recommend besides 1 SHOT RED for lettering? No one in my area carries RONAN lettering enamels. Only the bulletin colors. I am thinking of using that instead of the 1 SHOT. The 1 SHOT black sucks too! The paint starts to congeal as soon as the can is opened. A pint can will be like screen printing ink, and all lumpy before it's half gone. You end up tossing out half a can of paint because it's crap. I am in the cans every day. So it's not like it's sitting around getting old. I have tried using 1 SHOT reducers, Mineral spirits, automotive reducers. The red fades with all of them. If anyone has a solution, please share. 1 SHOT doesn't seem too concerned about it.
-------------------- Luke S. Luke Scanlan Artistry Ocala, Fl. lukescanlan@cox.net Posts: 249 | From: Ocala, Florida | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
HOK urethanes. Take some getting used to, hold up great! Five year old jobs look like they were done yesterday. We have also been using the Dupont Hot Hues and we like them a lot too, just haven't used them long enough to comment on the fade resistant qualities.
[ April 03, 2009, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Yes George I've said that exact same thing here on the BB years ago as well as my website. Some just want to hear it from someone closer to them, like God
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
quote:Originally posted by Joey Madden: Yes George I've said that exact same thing here on the BB years ago as well as my website. Some just want to hear it from someone closer to them, like God
Hey, I listened I'll never forget one time in chat years ago, you asked me "Have I ever lied to you?" I've paid attention since.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
heres your solution STOP USING IT! One shot sucks and their additives' suck. it doesnt last, it wont stand up and I honestly cannot believe they still make this crap.
i would suggest single stage paints.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
-------------------- Bob Noyes Digital Graffiti 310 Main St NE Mapleton, MN 56065 Posts: 130 | From: Mapleton, MN | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Again an issue of regulators overstepping the issue and not understanding that not all lead is directly poisonous (as is sweet lead/white lead). Overkill cancelled out hard lead pigments that last much longer than the transparent synthetics that must be now used. While I understand that the primary reason for their discontinuance was to protect those who mine and package the pigments from serious heavy metal lung ailments (as well as ailments for us from sanding dust), there should have been ways to improve safety so we could have colors that last. I still prefer the workable feel of enamels when hand lettering as they give me the control and correct drag. Doctoring them for better durability, especially using hardener is the number one option although not complete. The reality is though that these issues are present for 1Shot, Ronan and all others making alkyd enamels.
Also, FYI, bulletin enamels are the same base as lettering with lettering having only about 10% more pigment or compliment color to make them cover better. The reality is that most users thin lettering enamel down for workability to about the same consistancy as bulletin enamel.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Kent, does that go for the unopened gallons of Chromatic that I have from back when. I still have the formulas in content for Bulletin compared to Lettering as some of the colors like Magenta, Fire Red and Purple being the exact same formula as the Lettering, I believe the blues and some of the greens are not, this is according to Chromatic. I have these formulas which I got from couple workers not to mention their names who worked in Stony Point when I was in Haverstraw and have some of these gallons when they first sold to Akzo. You remember those days
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
Hi Luke, I've had your same problem. George and some others swear by the HOK stuff. Finesse striping tapes has a line of lettering/striping enamels also, but I've never used them yet. The Ronan has always been a pretty good paint, though a little harder to get. They will sell to you directly.
I've also got some new Sherwin-Williams industrial enamel that I've used on backgrounds, but not tried to letter with yet. The rep at the store told me it should hold up for 4 years outside, uncleared. Worth a shot.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
| IP: Logged |
I had the pleasure of trying the Kustom Shop urethane at last Artie's Party last year. Great off the tip of a brush and awesome through an airbrush.
For what it's worth, I've been a long time One Shot user, but the last couple of years, it has just been increasingly difficult to deny that they are never going to be the paints they once were. When you stripe a truck, it literally falls off the next day, and the advice you're given is to "stir it more frequently", there's not a whole lot left to say. The changes to OS paints have been made. The reasons for them after all this time no longer matter. The fact that I just plain can't count on them to last any more do.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
People, its not against the law to investigate and find leaded 1-Shot paints. In the past so many years I have found more 1-Shot in garages and old sign painters homes than I know what to do with and have many of those paints today. The paint I have on hand is from both Consumers and Chromatic which Consumers may be 30 years old but as long as the paint is not hard and has the cap on properly, it will work well both in bulletin and lettering enamels.
The reasons I don't use the newer paints is the catalyst and if I were to use a catalyst, I might as well use HoK which I have written about on my site for the past 12 years.
I agree the new 1-Shot is not a great product any longer but neither are many of the newer paints such as the one Ray mentions which is in competition with HoK and not sign enamels. FYI, Finesse paints were and probably still is from Ronan as both Finesse and Ronan are from NY but in different boroughs as there are 5 boroughs within that area. The reason I know these things is because I too grew up in that area and also lived and had a stripe shop within 1 mile of Chromatic back in the days it was owned by the Steve Berman, that's where I met Kent Smith
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
Ray mentioned Kustom Shop. I've been curious about this stuff but I keep hearing such mixed reviews on it. Has anybody out there used it for any length of time?????? How does it hold up in the sun? I've heard it has shelf life problems. I've also heard of it having various adhesion problems. I've seen folks posting work using it but now they are using something else
joey, you are slick I've seen those ads about having One Shot for sale and never gave it a thought.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
I have been using Kustom Shop for about 2 years, I have had no adhison problems, and it dries in like 5 minutes! The one thing I have noticed and an currently testing... is other chemicals effecting it after its beed dry, like prepsol took it off over 24 hours later. windex has dulled it after an hour dry, and I tried it... it own reducer will wipe it right off after 2-3 days dry.
On the flip side... I have put candies over it in an hour and cleared it with catilized ureathane with in an hour.
the colors are just as bright and cover much better than OS
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
---------------------------------
"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Joey, yes to all the issues and I do remember those dyas. Understand that the formulas were changed just before the sale because we could not get the original pigments or resins from the suppliers anymore. One of the reasons for selling was to save the products because AKZO was large enough to get raw materials that were not available to us. It is true that some formulae are the same for the two. It is simpler for others to understand that overall, that is how they gained coverage when needed. The lead pigments were removed in the transition to AKZO except chrome yellow, that came later. We dropped the lead dryer in the move from Garnerville to Stony Point to meet both Fed and NY regs.
Boy do I agree that no paints are the same now as they were even 5 or 7 years ago. Most major component manufacturers are still scrambling to make some reliable components so their customers can make a quality product. Then the paint factories scramble to change formulas to reflect the supply changes so their products are roughly similar to their original paints. When you think about it, it is a wonder that any paint, from any company, acutally works.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think the manufacturers of traditional lettering enamels are constantly trying formulas using inferior ingredients in order to keep the costs down hoping they can compete with vinyl. Since you can buy a vinyl cutter for a buck-2-80 they already loss that competition.
There is a need in my opinion for a paint that works like the lettering enamels of old, and which is brushable, that will outlast hp cast vinyl. A paint is needed that can be used that would give between 10-15 years longevity in all suspect colors. Even 100% acrylic latex paint will have failure with suspect colors before 10 years. And they do not letter with the same ease as the alkyds. I know many painters who would gladly pay extra for such a paint.
HOK letters with easy and holds up terrifically on heavy duty vehicles. Vehicles get turned so they are not always in direct sunlight like signs that face south. I like the toughness of the paint. I have been using HOK for longer lasting signs, but I have been clearing them with catalyzed automotive clears. I long for a paint that does not have to be catalyzed or cleared, that can be brushed, that covers for most colors in 1 coat and last 10-15 years. I think there is a market for such an animal.
Does anyone have any testimonials on Fine Paints of Europe?
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
For what it's worth, Ive been using 1-Shot for ever. It's never going to get any better until someone else owns the paint line or they stop making it altogether.Us "old guys" can still make it work, but why do I have to constantly "mouse it up" to work with it & say a prayer each time I letter or stripe with it? I now use Ronan lettering enamel(almost exclusively) & the Kustom Shop's "E-z fLOW" ENAMELS.They DO work!PS for those suits that think there's not enough people painting anymore, they should get out & visit the "Real Shows"(Arties Party, Detroit, Milwakee, Oakland,etc.)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I'll never forget one time in chat years ago, you asked me "Have I ever lied to you?" I've paid attention since.
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I've seen those ads about having One Shot for sale and never gave it a thought.
Printer-friendly view of this topic