posted
I did a search and found some varied comments on Extira here . . . I'd just like to compile a list of pro's and con's . . .
I am going to be bidding on a project where it is used as both 'half-wall' and sign on a gazebo - and will be close to a concrete pad outdoors - maybe 5" off the ground.
Any issues that should be addressed in a installation like that?
I see rounding the edges is important (as with all painted exterior signage) - and adhesion of paint is an issue.
Any other comments?
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The stuff is heavy, so you need a good way to transport, offload, and install it when using it for panels. I would treat it the way you treat thick panes of glass - keep it stacked vertically, and figure your expansion into your retainer/hardware system.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Yes, it's very heavy and not terribly paint or adhesive friendly. The advantage is that it's typically less expensive than comparable substrates. It seems to hold up reasonably well if properly installed and coated.
Another tip from Joe Crumley which I must say works really great,-Thanks Joe, WASH THE PANEL DOWN WITH DISH SOAP AND RINSE GOOD.
You will find a great difference in primer adhesion, it takes the film right away.
[ March 18, 2009, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Sam Staffan ]
-------------------- Sam Staffan Mackinaw Art & Sign 721 S. Nokomis St. Mackinaw City, MI dstaffan@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1694 | From: Mackinaw City, MI | Registered: Mar 2004
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Speaking from experience, I'd say that the extra prep time and material required for longevity is hardly worth the initial money saved.
I followed a proceedure outlined here to make it weather proof. I really feel as though I would have saved money if I'd just bought SignFoam to begin with.
I do feel that the finished product is a good quality. It does carve well on the router. Yes, it's heavy, but it has a great look. Just my .02
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Rick Beisiegel: Speaking from experience, I'd say that the extra prep time and material required for longevity is hardly worth the initial money saved.
I followed a procedure outlined here to make it weather proof. I really feel as though I would have saved money if I'd just bought SignFoam to begin with.
I do feel that the finished product is a good quality. It does carve well on the router. Yes, it's heavy, but it has a great look. Just my .02
Their both great products in their own place. I do not see any extra time in prep to make it "waterproof"?? it already is 99% waterproof.
Again not sticking up for it just showing where it has a place.
Here are two signs the green is cast and is in for a strip down, painted and then leafed. This type of sign has hands on them all day long.
Now imagine if that was in signfoam. How many of the small letters do you think would be missing after one summer? I will bet there would not be an i dotted anymore.
As for the Blue sign - Sandblasted Extira with silver Aqua Leaf. Every letter is as strong as can be, some cannot even tell that it is not cast.
And for skirting out post the Extira is great!
The ground moisture has not affected any that I have done to date. Just keep the weed wackers away from them. But if you cannot we wrap the bottom with metal and then paint.
-------------------- Sam Staffan Mackinaw Art & Sign 721 S. Nokomis St. Mackinaw City, MI dstaffan@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1694 | From: Mackinaw City, MI | Registered: Mar 2004
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-------------------- Sam Staffan Mackinaw Art & Sign 721 S. Nokomis St. Mackinaw City, MI dstaffan@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1694 | From: Mackinaw City, MI | Registered: Mar 2004
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Jay, Why extira? How will you be using it? Is it going to be shaped & dimensional or just a background for graphics? I've used it, like it, and as Sam pointed out it has great advantages in certain applications.
posted
Another trick if you want even more water proof and Paint acceptable is to take some Epoxy (West system or USG) and thin it with acetone then brush it on. Talk about rock hard.
posted
Thanks, guys!! All great info . . . Bill, it's an architect's spec. Need I say more?
Rick . . . I've used that logic before. In this case, it is used as a wall for a gazebo AND a sign - so HDU wouldn't fill the bill. Otherwise, I'd agree. There is a hump in the leak of the sign - so it isn't a recatangular sign and rules out some materials - unless you reinforced on the backside of the hump.
Sam, that's a dandy 'bronze plaque' look there on those Lake View Hotel signs . . . how long do you think those will last outdoors? Is that acrylic latex paint with silver leaf? Cost vs. a bronze plaque?
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jay...the product is fine and have used it a half dozen times in the last 5 or so years. It's brittle (edges will chip) but other than that follow the manu's instructions for finishing. Last I used it they were oil primers.
Disadvantages: Heavy Flaky on edges (If rounded over it performs well.) 1/2" full sheets will warp without support. Epoxy is best adhesive Water resistan which means latex primers are questionable. Glue, any kind, won't penetrate very deep.
Advantages: Once scrubed down with soap and water it can be primed with any distilate primer.
Extremely water resistant. Carves like a dream Routes like a dream Not expensive
Like any substrate, it has limitations and your is very timely and smart.
Good luck on the job.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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Maybe I over prepared my surfaces. As directed in a post here, I used Helmsman marine clear, followed by white oil based primer. then color layers. What a mess. Id much rather rinse and coat with Jay Cooke's primer. Lots easier
Sam
I can see the advantage of a firmer substrate with signs like those...I've actually seen some of those in mny travels.....nice work
[ March 20, 2009, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Jay......all is well here and very busy. Thats a good thing from what I see everywhere else....Would love to know how are things in your area, so my take...talk to the designer architect about HDU. They usually have a set of ideas that are open for better ones. It would seem Joe and Rick's advice is sound if ya gotta use it. I see no benefit except for price.
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Dave I buy it at our local plywood and sheet goods/counter top supplier. Locally here it's called Distributor Service, Inc. I looked and they don't have a location in Michigan, but you have to have a Building Supplier other than the box chain stores around. Maybe look on the Extira website for distributors in your area.
-------------------- Rick Heller Ohio Technical College 1374 E. 51st Street Cleveland, OH 44103 IOAFS Posts: 210 | From: Cleveland, OH | Registered: Nov 2001
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I have used Extira for dimensional signs for at least 5 years now without a failure and love it. The main reason... several of my HDU signs were damaged by hail which is not uncommon in this area. Extira is tough enough to withstand hail.
Yes, it's extremely heavy but signs can be built in smaller pieces for easier handling. Besides weight is rarely a factor on anything with the exception of bracket hung signs.
As recommended on the Extira site I have always used oilbase primers with either oilbase or acrylic paint depending which is more suitable.
On several earlier projects I used a 2 part polyurethane encapsulant but rarely use that anymore except on complex handcarved elements made from laminated pieces of Extira to positively seal out moisture intrusion between layers.
-------------------- Happy Signing...... Marty
M.F. (Marty) Happy Signmaker Since 1974 Happy Ad Sign & Design Regina SK, Canada S4N 5K4 306-789-9567 happyad@sasktel.net www.happyad.ca
Get Happy & Get Noticed! Posts: 773 | From: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Jan 1999
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