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They want this single sided sign done on 3/4" MDO painted white.Routered edges. Violet Oracal 751 it's about 36" wide by 36" high. What do you think I should charge for this sign? Also what is the best way to paint MDO and what type of paint should I use for outdoors? Thanks the Newbie appreciates any help that you can give me. [IMG][/IMG]
[ January 07, 2009, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Larry Budnick ]
-------------------- AML Graphics Rogers City, MI. Posts: 99 | From: Rogers City, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2008
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This is just a rough draft. I need to get the font for 'Regal Financial Group' and the rest. And clean everything up a bit. Do I even need to use MDO or can I use plywood?
[ January 07, 2009, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Larry Budnick ]
-------------------- AML Graphics Rogers City, MI. Posts: 99 | From: Rogers City, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2008
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no...you need to use MDO, dude. gloss exterior latex(porter or ben moore) or exterior enamel(like one shot or ronan)...primer...paint...seal edges... hard to tell what you should charge since you don't have a clue as to what you are doing. i'm not so sure you should charge top dollar if you don't know how properly coat a board so it doesn't fail. don't mean to come across as mean, but just stating my opinion. if i was making this sign...i would certainly fix the kerning and fix those corners...they look distorted instead of radiused. i might charge anywhere from $325-$400...depending on whether they supplied the artwork or i laid it out. but that's just me. others may charge alot less some more.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Karyn got that right! I'd charge about $250. Simple no brainer. I'd have about 1-1/2 hrs into it. Here in Southern California AKA Northern Mexico, The edges aren't that much of a problem to seal. Your going to have a hell of a time with that border!
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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Thanks for all the replies everyone I really appreciate it.
And as for Karyn's comments. A person has to start somewhere, Karyn. I'm not fortunate enough to know everything from the start. So as I don't really have anyone around my area to learn certain methods and techniques from, I thought this was a great place to go. But I guess I was wrong. I'm sorry to bother you.
-------------------- AML Graphics Rogers City, MI. Posts: 99 | From: Rogers City, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2008
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I don't think anyone here knows everything. I sure don't.
Karen had some very good info for ya and if you read her right, she wasn't trying to put anyone down.....newbe or otherwise. No flame intended here, just sharing my viewpoint s'all.
Joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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Hi Larry. .I would do this sign on .080 or .063 white aluminum. . .you should be able to buy from your sign supplier there or maybe a sheet metal place. I paid $108 this afternoon for a 4'x'8' .080 sheet. Just apply your graphics, leave the mask on & cut it out with a sabre saw to shape. Sand or file the edges, peel the mask & you're done. No paint necessary. Plus, you'll still have a 4'x5' cut off.
[ January 09, 2009, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Carl Wood ]
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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No matter what the substrate was, I'd be using pinstripe tape for the border and then cutting/stacking the graphic and lettering in the most economical way possible.
As far as the background coating is concerned, I always used a spraygun and the Canadian version of Rustoleom?
I would charge around $300-400, depending on what YOU think the customer could handle. NEVER back down on your initial price.
Haggling price only works in the customer's favour and indicates that YOU are "easy".
"Easy" is Ok if yer a hooker but not if yer a serious business person!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
quote: And as for Karyn's comments. A person has to start somewhere,
Yes, a person has to start somewhere. However, you are not even ready to be in kindergarden. You do not even know what paint to use.
In other words why are you trying to pose as a professional when you do not know how to select a paint, seal a mdo or know how to panel vinyl.
good luck
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Karyn, Sorry I took your constructive criticism the wrong way I did appreciate your suggestions. I was just having a bad day and took it too personal.
Curtis, I'm not posing as a professional, I'm trying my best to become a professional. So I'm sorry that you feel that way. Nothing I can do to change the way you feel.
And to EVERYONE, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, for the guidance, the ideas and the suggestions. Not to mention the constructive criticism.
[ January 10, 2009, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: Larry Budnick ]
-------------------- AML Graphics Rogers City, MI. Posts: 99 | From: Rogers City, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2008
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Yeah, what a poser piece of crap Larry is for being new wanting to learn how to properly quote, coat and execute the sign on a sign board that people come to learn. Shame on you Larry.
Don't take THIS, the wrong way like Larry's post was taken, but.... Some of you need to get off your high horses. Seriously. Your gonna catch a nosebleed up there.
There was a great range of good advice here. The only problems began when Larry decided to take Karen's good comments personally, instead of learning from the advice in them.
It's often the 'less than rosy statements' that can teach you the most, and we all look forward to learning something (well, most of us do, that's why we're here).
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I would make changes on the spacing...move the lion's head up and slightly left...then "REGAL and FINANCIAL GROUP" can go up and to the right...then the bottom 3 lines can come up...I always like a little extra space at the bottom...a good rule of thumb is to never cramp the bottom...just seems to balance better...oh, I would also change the radius on corners...smaller to fit the turns...good luck...looks like a simple job...just not balanced right.
posted
I've seen many the time where someone came here new and breathed the wrong way or phrased something slightly wrong only for someone else to jump down their throat making a host of new assumptions for someone else to feed off. Larry didn't say he was charging top dollar, nor did he say he was a pro. He asked a simple question and got some very good advice from some. Karyn's comments didn't come off like she was trying to be mean, just direct. Straight to the point and constructive. Well, now that I read them, they were a little harsh, I mean he could have known ways to do it and asking just to see what others would do but whatever....no big deal, Karyn still had something good to say. Unlike another comment that was pretty rude, nonconstructive, with no real advice except an unnecessary put down. That's what I was talking about and I've seen it happen here more than a few times. I'm not upset though, just trying to curb a bad trend. Maybe I should have just kept quiet to keep the peace but as someone said in another post here recently "we love the drama"
and Larry, Sorry if I put your post all on the spotlight, there's a lot of good folks on letterville as you will see. I hope most of you count me among one of them.
posted
Larry, I'd recommend you try & get the book "Mastering Layout" by Mike Stevens. It's usually available via Signcraft, one of the supporters of this website.
It'll teach you a lot about copy priority & improving layout & is worth getting & studying!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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You have a challenge making a living in those parts. I have many good friends there. Just cut through the words and use the great advice here. Karyn is spot on.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3488 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'm about to break a rule I've had since I first joined this board; commenting on a personal issue. I don't mean to be critical of a new sign maker, but I'm just too curious to let it go by.
What is your situation Larry?
Did you really start a sign business first and then decide to learn how to make a sign? Have you ever made a sign before?
Are you learning now so you can start a business at some future date? If so, what is your background and what are you doing now?
-------------------- Paul Luszcz Zebra Visuals 27 Water Street Plymouth, MA 02360 508 746-9200 paul@zebravisuals.com Posts: 483 | From: 27 Water Street, Plymouth, MA 02360 | Registered: Jul 2003
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Larry. Don't worry to much on others and thier posts.
I have been in this industry for 35 years and I still get kick to the curb by others.
That is 'OK' by me, because I look and listen to new ideas. Sometimes I take it to heart.
Your design is fine and needs a tweak or two. But that is up to you and the customer.
Myself I would sand and clear prime the board, next paint it with a exterior white paint. Oil Base. Give it a few days to cure and ad graphics, vinyl or hand painted. $350.00 to $400.00 not installed.
Just remember that insurance comes into play if you install it and something goes wrong. You get to keep the left over materials for the next job.
-------------------- Stephen Deveau RavenGraphics Insinx Digital Displays
Letting Your Imagination Run Wild! Posts: 4327 | From: Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000
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i knew i should of used those cute little gremlins...but i was in a hurry and well ya know how the internet can come across when you can't see that person behind the keyboard. i really didn't intend to beat ya up larry...my keyboard can seem so bytchy without the smilies. i am very direct sometimes...and like i said i didn't mean to come across as mean...but it just seemed odd that you were asking for pricing and how to coat a board, giving me the impression that you didn't know even the most basic skills. hey that's okay, we've all been there.
you are correct...we all start somewhere. some work as apprentices and some jump right in. i'm not going to lie...this is a tough business...and the pay is okay at times, but it will not make you wealthy in this economic downturn. it can also bite you in asss pretty quick when you have several hundred dollars of material and something fails. it happens to all of us...seasoned or new. its a crazy business.
i wish you nothing but the best, my friend. this is a great source of information and wonderful people.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I thought Karyn's comments were OK in her first post...yep they were rather direct and maybe gremlins would have helped but since her comments were apparently misconstrued her clarification shows real "class"...I for one remember recently positing an e-mail question to Karyn in regards to what some might have thought was a silly sign question...she took the time and sent me back a very helpful informative answer...thanks Karyn...and maybe your comments just needed gremlins like you said
posted
Meanwhile, back at the initial question....
Like I said...PVC...ready to apply to.
Here's what your cut file looks like (assuming a 24 in plotter...
Cut to shape and router. An hour or so.
Cut, weed and app the 5 ft of vinyl...20 minutes.
The stripes make the border..your choice of thickness, but I'd go with 1/4 inch. Easy to bend it around the top curve. Another 20 minutes...30 if it's your first attempt.
Knock the last two images on and use some scraps to trim the rounded corners by hand.
Bill them.
Have a nice day! Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Hey thanks to everybody that replied. Thanks for the ideas and guidance. Anyway, here's how it turned out. I'm taking it to him today. I also have a 5"x36" name plate that goes just beneath the main sign. Thanks again to everybody. And Dave thanks for your help, it was very much appreciated.
[ February 05, 2009, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Larry Budnick ]
-------------------- AML Graphics Rogers City, MI. Posts: 99 | From: Rogers City, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2008
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Looks good from here Larry, good job. One suggestion I would make to help you along in your venture is to invest in spell check and estimating software. Myself and several others here use EstiMate from www.pricingmadeeasy.com. The basic program is quite affordable and quite handy. If you do a search here you'll see a lot of positive comments about it.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Welcome aboard Larry. WOW !!! What an initiation..lol.
Seemingly, not just at the "sign game" but also in the industry, you have a lot to learn. When you think you know enough... you are just scratching the surface. I have been in this game for 13 years - and I know Jack (nothing). There are people who have been doing this for more than 50 years and they STILL post on here. And they are good - damn good. They are gifted people whom others respect their opinion, and they still are asking others "how would you do this, or how do you do that". I commend you for being ballsy enough to take it, and in the end your sign looks great. I truly hope also that there are 4 or 5 others just like it in the corner that no one will ever see (we all have those still lying around as a reminder), and I also hope you made no money on it. Simply from a learning curve, it is the best way to protect an ever growing asset - your knowledge. Often, the learning curve is not how to do something, rather how not to do something. We have all been there. From my point of view, I now reflect and appreciate the "beating" I got on a few posts. It made me push harder - much harder, before I even dreamt of posting something. Yes it's great to hear "that's an awesome sign" and probably you may have initially thought it was. That's ok. We've also all been there. But here is an important thing to remember. Many, if not most signwriters / signmakers work alone. Often no backup. That means you are the guy that suggests the substrate, prepares the substrate, designs the shape / layout, chooses the paint or vinyl, makes the sign, and delivers and installs it. That is between being the Accountant, Office Manager, IT Department, Fleet Manager, Postal Service, Advertising Guru, Maintenance Manager... and so the list goes on and never seems to stop growing.
Welcome to it Larry, a valuable lesson has been learnt. Bad days can be had by all, but beware, sometimes bad days can bite you in the ar$e. And nobody wins. Listen, learn, read, absorb. When you have asked a million questions, start on the next million. This is a board for sharing, and one day, I truly hope you will answer a question with a wry grin on your face and a small chuckle from within, remembering the days when a choice between MDO and plywood was oh so confusing.
Best of luck to you my friend.
-------------------- Gregg Sydney Signworks (02) 9837 1198 Schofields NSW Australia Posts: 368 | From: Schofields | Registered: May 2007
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gremlins...but i was in a hurry and well ya know how the internet can come across when you can't see that person behind the keyboard. i really didn't intend to beat ya up larry...my keyboard can seem so bytchy without the smilies.![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
but since her comments were apparently misconstrued her clarification shows real "class"...I for one remember recently positing an e-mail question to Karyn in regards to what some might have thought was a silly sign question...she took the time and sent me back a very helpful informative answer...thanks Karyn...and maybe your comments just needed gremlins like you said 
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