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Author Topic: What would you do?
Wayne Webb
Resident


Member # 1124

Icon 1 posted October 09, 2008 11:41 AM      Profile for Wayne Webb   Author's Homepage   Email Wayne Webb   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The owner of another shop called, asking for a "wholesale" price on an 11' x 5.5', two sided HDU sign.....60.5 sqft. He says that his company will do the design and installation. All I am to do is produce the panel, ready to be mounted on a brick or stone structure.

I would normally quote $11,585 plus tax, on this sign panel. How much should I adjust this? Because the only thing I can think of to subtract is the design time.
thanks

--------------------
Wayne Webb
Webb Signworks
Chipley, FL
850.638.9329
wayne@webbsignworks.com

Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Si Allen
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Member # 420

Icon 1 posted October 09, 2008 12:00 PM      Profile for Si Allen   Email Si Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Normally...wholesale price is full retail minus 30%.

--------------------
Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA

(714) 521-4810

si.allen on Skype

siallen@dslextreme.com

"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!

Brushasaurus on Chat

Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Billie DeBekker
Visitor
Member # 3848

Icon 1 posted October 09, 2008 12:34 PM      Profile for Billie DeBekker   Author's Homepage   Email Billie DeBekker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's we do on our wholesale as Si said sometimes 40% on Digital printing but never more then that.

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Billie DeBekker
3rd Dimension Signs
Canon City Colorado 81212
719-276-9338
bill@3dsignco.com
www.3dsignco.com

"Another Fine Graduate of the Ray Charles School of Sign Painting."

Posts: 2530 | From: Canon City, Colorado | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
thom miller
Visitor
Member # 1845

Icon 1 posted October 09, 2008 01:19 PM      Profile for thom miller   Email thom miller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you are not a wholesale shop, don't give wholesale pricing.

When I do work for advertising agencies, I charge the same as if I were selling the sign direct.
It's up to the agency to mark it up if they want to make a profit.

This company likes your work, they can't do it themselves...charge them your normal rate.

If you truly do not have to edit or spend anytime at all on the artwork they give you, then deducting that cost alone may be fair. I rarely get artwork that is full scale and ready to send to the plotter.

--------------------
Thom
CREATIVE SIGNWORKS
Lancaster,PA
creativesignworks1@juno.com

Posts: 79 | From: lancaster,PA usa | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wayne Webb
Resident


Member # 1124

Icon 1 posted October 09, 2008 01:36 PM      Profile for Wayne Webb   Author's Homepage   Email Wayne Webb   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's the way it looks to me, Thom.

If I knocked off, say, $450 for design time, I would still have to do everything else I normally do when building a sign. But I would still come out OK on the deal. But If I knocked off 30%, I still have the expense of about $2000 in materials. Then it takes electricity, consumables like sandpaper, gasoline for the air compressor, about 1400 lbs of blasting sand. Then there's insurance and all the other less obvious overhead involved in building signs. That leaves us with maybe $6000, When we would have made about $9000. That's a loss of at least $3000 or about 54 man/hours of labor....actually the labor would be more than that because an 11 x 5 foot sign is going to weight about 250 lbs and it will take at least two more pairs of hands to move around the shop.

[ October 09, 2008, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]

--------------------
Wayne Webb
Webb Signworks
Chipley, FL
850.638.9329
wayne@webbsignworks.com

Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ricky Jackson
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Member # 5082

Icon 1 posted October 09, 2008 02:03 PM      Profile for Ricky Jackson   Email Ricky Jackson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We normally give a 20% discount but we don't do much of that. Looks like you have room for at least a reasonable discount.

--------------------
Ricky Jackson
Signs Now
614 Russell Parkway
Warner Robins, GA
(478) 923-7722
signpimp50@hotmail.com

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton

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Deri Russell
Resident


Member # 119

Icon 1 posted October 09, 2008 02:16 PM      Profile for Deri Russell   Author's Homepage   Email Deri Russell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So you normally don't do the install? Charges?What happens if the sign has a problem down the road? Are you going to be able to prove that it has something to do with the install? I'd be a little leary and keep my price up there Wayne. After all there's a lot of painting on a 2 sided, and being 2 sided it can get a little bit tricky to install. That is one big sandblasted to replace labour wise if there is a problem in a year or two. I think I would be agreeing with you and Thom, maybe not quite normal rate but $450-10% would be all I would give them, If another sign shop wants it real bad they might regret it later.

--------------------
Deri Russell
Wildwood Signs
Hanover, Ontario

You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me.

Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wayne Webb
Resident


Member # 1124

Icon 1 posted October 09, 2008 03:01 PM      Profile for Wayne Webb   Author's Homepage   Email Wayne Webb   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
On sandblasted signs, we do almost all of our own installs. I would rather do it that way because I know it will be done the way I want it done. This sign would be built with two internal steel sleeves at the bottom. It will be mounted low to the ground on a concrete foundation so I don't forsee any problems unless a tornado or something hits it. The other sign company owner is a licensed contractor who builds and installs electric signs so he should have a pretty good idea of what he's doing. I would make sure he agrees in writing, that he assumes all liability for his install.

[ October 09, 2008, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]

--------------------
Wayne Webb
Webb Signworks
Chipley, FL
850.638.9329
wayne@webbsignworks.com

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Deri Russell
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Member # 119

Icon 1 posted October 09, 2008 03:41 PM      Profile for Deri Russell   Author's Homepage   Email Deri Russell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
All I'm saying is that you are going to take $450 off for design but no amount off for install is that right?

--------------------
Deri Russell
Wildwood Signs
Hanover, Ontario

You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me.

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Si Allen
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Member # 420

Icon 1 posted October 09, 2008 03:55 PM      Profile for Si Allen   Email Si Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wake up Kiddies!

This is WHOLESALE! The guarantee ends at your curb! The same as RTA vinyl! They screw it up...they pay for another!

Now let's look at profit! Jeeeese! Only $6000 for a 1 1/2 weeks work ... most sign guys would give their left testicle for that opprotunity! So you don't make that additional $3000 .... BUT you do make the $6000 that he is bringing you...and possibly much more like it!

I have made a good living subcontracting similar to that.


[Bash] [Bash] [Bash] [Bash]

[ October 09, 2008, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]

--------------------
Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA

(714) 521-4810

si.allen on Skype

siallen@dslextreme.com

"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!

Brushasaurus on Chat

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Wayne Webb
Resident


Member # 1124

Icon 1 posted October 09, 2008 04:10 PM      Profile for Wayne Webb   Author's Homepage   Email Wayne Webb   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Deri Russell:
All I'm saying is that you are going to take $450 off for design but no amount off for install is that right?

Deri,
I did not quote on a turnkey, installed sign. I only quoted on a finished sign panel. The foundation, structure, permits and installation labor will be done by the other sign company and I did not include all that in the quote.

[ October 09, 2008, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]

--------------------
Wayne Webb
Webb Signworks
Chipley, FL
850.638.9329
wayne@webbsignworks.com

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Checkers
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Member # 63

Icon 1 posted October 10, 2008 11:41 AM      Profile for Checkers   Author's Homepage   Email Checkers   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hiya Wayne,
Besides the design, you don't have to worry about additional meetings with the client, selling the project, design revisions, etc. However, IMHO, that time savings doesn't equate to a 30-40% discount.
Without knowing the client and all of the details, I probably would only give a 20% discount off your retail price. But, it would depend on how busy I am too.

Havin' fun,

Checkers

--------------------
a.k.a. Brian Born
www.CheckersCustom.com
Harrisburg, Pa
Work Smart, Play Hard

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Wayne Webb
Resident


Member # 1124

Icon 1 posted October 10, 2008 12:46 PM      Profile for Wayne Webb   Author's Homepage   Email Wayne Webb   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks Brian, thanks for the replies everyone.
I figured, dealing with the other shop and messing with their file would take almost as much time as dealing with a customer. But I knocked off $804 for design time.
I gave them a quote of $10,784. That came to almost 7% off.

Si,
The next time you build an 11' x 5 1/2' x 3'' thick HDU sandblasted sign with an internal welded steel frame, manhandle it around in your shop by yourself or even with a helper, maintain a decent level of workmanship and do it all in a week and a half, please videotape it for me. I would really like to see that.

[ October 10, 2008, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]

--------------------
Wayne Webb
Webb Signworks
Chipley, FL
850.638.9329
wayne@webbsignworks.com

Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Si Allen
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Member # 420

Icon 1 posted October 10, 2008 03:43 PM      Profile for Si Allen   Email Si Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wayne....you are the one that you estimated 54 hours to do the job.

--------------------
Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA

(714) 521-4810

si.allen on Skype

siallen@dslextreme.com

"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!

Brushasaurus on Chat

Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wayne Webb
Resident


Member # 1124

Icon 1 posted October 10, 2008 05:22 PM      Profile for Wayne Webb   Author's Homepage   Email Wayne Webb   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wayne Webb:
That's the way it looks to me, Thom.

If I knocked off, say, $450 for design time, I would still have to do everything else I normally do when building a sign. But I would still come out OK on the deal. But If I knocked off 30%, I still have the expense of about $2000 in materials. Then it takes electricity, consumables like sandpaper, gasoline for the air compressor, about 1400 lbs of blasting sand. Then there's insurance and all the other less obvious overhead involved in building signs. That leaves us with maybe $6000, When we would have made about $9000. That's a loss of at least $3000 or about 54 man/hours of labor....actually the labor would be more than that because an 11 x 5 foot sign is going to weight about 250 lbs and it will take at least two more pairs of hands to move around the shop.



--------------------
Wayne Webb
Webb Signworks
Chipley, FL
850.638.9329
wayne@webbsignworks.com

Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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