posted October 09, 2008 11:41 AM
The owner of another shop called, asking for a "wholesale" price on an 11' x 5.5', two sided HDU sign.....60.5 sqft. He says that his company will do the design and installation. All I am to do is produce the panel, ready to be mounted on a brick or stone structure.
I would normally quote $11,585 plus tax, on this sign panel. How much should I adjust this? Because the only thing I can think of to subtract is the design time. thanks
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted October 09, 2008 01:19 PM
If you are not a wholesale shop, don't give wholesale pricing.
When I do work for advertising agencies, I charge the same as if I were selling the sign direct. It's up to the agency to mark it up if they want to make a profit.
This company likes your work, they can't do it themselves...charge them your normal rate.
If you truly do not have to edit or spend anytime at all on the artwork they give you, then deducting that cost alone may be fair. I rarely get artwork that is full scale and ready to send to the plotter.
-------------------- Thom CREATIVE SIGNWORKS Lancaster,PA creativesignworks1@juno.com Posts: 79 | From: lancaster,PA usa | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted October 09, 2008 01:36 PM
That's the way it looks to me, Thom.
If I knocked off, say, $450 for design time, I would still have to do everything else I normally do when building a sign. But I would still come out OK on the deal. But If I knocked off 30%, I still have the expense of about $2000 in materials. Then it takes electricity, consumables like sandpaper, gasoline for the air compressor, about 1400 lbs of blasting sand. Then there's insurance and all the other less obvious overhead involved in building signs. That leaves us with maybe $6000, When we would have made about $9000. That's a loss of at least $3000 or about 54 man/hours of labor....actually the labor would be more than that because an 11 x 5 foot sign is going to weight about 250 lbs and it will take at least two more pairs of hands to move around the shop.
[ October 09, 2008, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted October 09, 2008 02:03 PM
We normally give a 20% discount but we don't do much of that. Looks like you have room for at least a reasonable discount.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted October 09, 2008 02:16 PM
So you normally don't do the install? Charges?What happens if the sign has a problem down the road? Are you going to be able to prove that it has something to do with the install? I'd be a little leary and keep my price up there Wayne. After all there's a lot of painting on a 2 sided, and being 2 sided it can get a little bit tricky to install. That is one big sandblasted to replace labour wise if there is a problem in a year or two. I think I would be agreeing with you and Thom, maybe not quite normal rate but $450-10% would be all I would give them, If another sign shop wants it real bad they might regret it later.
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted October 09, 2008 03:01 PM
On sandblasted signs, we do almost all of our own installs. I would rather do it that way because I know it will be done the way I want it done. This sign would be built with two internal steel sleeves at the bottom. It will be mounted low to the ground on a concrete foundation so I don't forsee any problems unless a tornado or something hits it. The other sign company owner is a licensed contractor who builds and installs electric signs so he should have a pretty good idea of what he's doing. I would make sure he agrees in writing, that he assumes all liability for his install.
[ October 09, 2008, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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This is WHOLESALE! The guarantee ends at your curb! The same as RTA vinyl! They screw it up...they pay for another!
Now let's look at profit! Jeeeese! Only $6000 for a 1 1/2 weeks work ... most sign guys would give their left testicle for that opprotunity! So you don't make that additional $3000 .... BUT you do make the $6000 that he is bringing you...and possibly much more like it!
I have made a good living subcontracting similar to that.
[ October 09, 2008, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
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siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Deri Russell: All I'm saying is that you are going to take $450 off for design but no amount off for install is that right?
Deri, I did not quote on a turnkey, installed sign. I only quoted on a finished sign panel. The foundation, structure, permits and installation labor will be done by the other sign company and I did not include all that in the quote.
[ October 09, 2008, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted October 10, 2008 11:41 AM
Hiya Wayne, Besides the design, you don't have to worry about additional meetings with the client, selling the project, design revisions, etc. However, IMHO, that time savings doesn't equate to a 30-40% discount. Without knowing the client and all of the details, I probably would only give a 20% discount off your retail price. But, it would depend on how busy I am too.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted October 10, 2008 12:46 PM
Thanks Brian, thanks for the replies everyone. I figured, dealing with the other shop and messing with their file would take almost as much time as dealing with a customer. But I knocked off $804 for design time. I gave them a quote of $10,784. That came to almost 7% off.
Si, The next time you build an 11' x 5 1/2' x 3'' thick HDU sandblasted sign with an internal welded steel frame, manhandle it around in your shop by yourself or even with a helper, maintain a decent level of workmanship and do it all in a week and a half, please videotape it for me. I would really like to see that.
[ October 10, 2008, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Wayne Webb: That's the way it looks to me, Thom.
If I knocked off, say, $450 for design time, I would still have to do everything else I normally do when building a sign. But I would still come out OK on the deal. But If I knocked off 30%, I still have the expense of about $2000 in materials. Then it takes electricity, consumables like sandpaper, gasoline for the air compressor, about 1400 lbs of blasting sand. Then there's insurance and all the other less obvious overhead involved in building signs. That leaves us with maybe $6000, When we would have made about $9000. That's a loss of at least $3000 or about 54 man/hours of labor....actually the labor would be more than that because an 11 x 5 foot sign is going to weight about 250 lbs and it will take at least two more pairs of hands to move around the shop.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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