posted
Big walls ... NO CONTEST ... paint wins by a country mile!
Construction Company was quoted $35,000 to supply and apply digital prints to the gyprock walls of two new internal entry ramps into a local shopping mall. Total area: just over 170sqm (1600sqft).
Architects' design:
It's 3m x 25m (9ft x 75ft) 5 shades of green plus two shades off white/grey. Pic doesn't show some of the finer detail overlayed, but gives you an idea of how simple the layout is. I was given PMS colour references and told to use what I thought best paintwise. Dulux Wash and Wear semi gloss acrylics. Expensive, but top quality and cover very well. Murals start at waist level above the guard rails in a high traffic zone and may need retouching periodicly ... hence the other reason they didn't like a print.
The four walls will comprise of two full length images and two walls using half the design length. You can not project because of the width of the ramp between the walls. It will need to be scaled on in layers.
I was able to trace paper patterns for the fine repeatitive detail ... water drops, leaf images, etc. ... and will work from a 1/10 scale drawing I did for the rest.
Vicki, my daughter, was 'persuaded' to stay and help me paint it. Offer of $400/night for 10 night's work straight, helped
Considering the paint just cost me $393 for the whole job, the profit margin was looking good
NO ... I didn't leave any money on the table. First thing I asked was how much they had budgeted.
When I told them: "Yes I can do it. Do it well. Do it within your time frame. Do it for (slightly) under your $25,000 budget" They couldn't get the deposit to me quickly enough.
Start Monday Night 6pm. I will have some time during the days, besides trying to get some shut-eye, to do a progress/"how-to-do-it" posts here. I'll take pics as we go and update.
I just think there is still a HUGE potential Market for "Walldog" skills out there and want to encourage more to keep this aspect of our craft alive.
posted
ching ching, money for jam there jon, looks like the white line work might take the longest the rest looks like cut in and roll, well done and good luck.
-------------------- Mark Stokes Mark Stokes Signs Mount Barker South Australia Posts: 388 | From: Mount Barker | Registered: Jan 2005
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(P.S. and yes, thanks, I'd appreciate joining you & Peter for the trip to Cowra, if the offer's still open!)
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Sorry Ian, we are full up. I'm shouting Vicki her entry and expenses to Letterheads OZ as a bonus for this job. Four and all the gear would be stretching the limit of comfortable for a 12 hour drive.
posted
Hehehehe, the good guys win again!! Good on ya mate.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Aw Man, If I was there, I would soooooooooo want to be doing this with you!!! I had so much fun spending four days doing murals on the Life Education truck. Who needs sleep anyway?
Ian you can sit on my knee in the car with Paul Jordan hehe!
I still can't say it enough, how lucky are we to do a job we love and do it again for fun!!!
See you in Cowra Bushie, sounds like you might be needing some toothpicks to keep your eyes open!
-------------------- Anne McDonald 17 Karnak Crescent Russley Christchurch 8042 New Zealand
"I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure" Posts: 877 | From: Christchurch | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Anne, I'd still have to get to Syd-knee to be able to do that, and if I drove that far south from here, I'd be just about at Cowra anyway!
(I wonder if anyone else in this area (SE-Qld) needs a lift & wants to share fuel costs?)
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Quote "Aw Man, If I was there, I would soooooooooo want to be doing this with you!!! I had so much fun spending four days doing murals on the Life Education truck. Who needs sleep anyway? [Smile]"
Talk about open my mouth eh Jon, well I'm on my way!!!
Watch out Bushie I'll be spreading my kiwi jokes around come Sunday morning!!
-------------------- Anne McDonald 17 Karnak Crescent Russley Christchurch 8042 New Zealand
"I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure" Posts: 877 | From: Christchurch | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I have to wonder how in the name of heavens did the price of $35,000 come about. If I'm reading this right, there's 2 walls of 675 sq ft. for a toatl of 13,500 ft. At 10 per sq. ft for laminated prints that would total $13,500 , a very good profit margin. also add on 5 grand for install and I'd be making a killing... How much is a plane ticket to Aussie? lol
This is like doing 1 and a half 52 ft trailers, you should be able to install on a flat wall, no rivets in a couple of days with 2 people...
Looks good on ya all the same Jon, and Congratulations on landing this Job.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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Hey Neil, Don't forget that there's always more than meets the eye, especially with vinyl. Jon stated that there's about 1,600 sq ft of vinyl which comes to just under $22 sq. foot. Also, There's always an oops factor with vinyl, which would cost a lot more to fix than an error with paint. I normally figure an additional 10% in my price just to cover these oops. And, if I'm reading it right, you'll have to work after hours too, which is not uncommon for mall work. At a minimum, I charge time and a half for overtime or after hours work and I wouldn't hesitate to charge double or triple time when I work weekends or holidays.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
22 per sq. Ft. is absolutely incredible, what a profit margin Checkers, I could have this out sourced and still make a killing. I'm really not trying to start a arguement here, if you consider all the variables, even working overtime or after hours, having this printed makes much more sense...as long as it's on an inside wall.... it can even be printed on all sorts of different materials, with all kinds of different textures. You could overlaminate with an Anti Graphitti material. and if anyone ever sprays anything on it or it gets dirty it can be cleaned very easily.
Just food for thought, again I'm happy for Jon, maybe they want paint, and will not accept vinyl.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I'm ecstatic that it's paint cos I'm flying over from New Zealand to work on it. Yes its in a mall, all night time hours, right through the weekend and the malls insist you have huge insurance and authorisation to work in their spaces.
Its also 2 hours drive there and back each day so the costs are well justified.
Also you have to pack and unpack all the gear every day as it cannot be left on-site.
-------------------- Anne McDonald 17 Karnak Crescent Russley Christchurch 8042 New Zealand
"I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure" Posts: 877 | From: Christchurch | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Anne is entirely correct...working on a mall is a large PITA!
Not only do you have to set up and put away every nite, which eats up quite a bit of time, but it disrupts your sleep schedule.
In addition, you are dealing with Architects and Designers...who frequently make changes as you are working! Since they charge the mall BIG bucks, why should we work cheap!
Been there, done that, got the paint stained Tshirt!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8827 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
It seems all the reasons you give.. make it even more justified to do Digital.. with a crew of 4 this can be installed very quickly.... I know I'm a tool. lol
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
digital?.. and the first kid that gets just the slightest tab started.. Its all over. Peeled edge in no time. Been there too..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
No argument intended Neil Just for kicks and giggles, I ran the numbers as if the job would have been digitally printed in my shop. Not surprising, it's not a $35k job, but my numbers are in line with Jon's. The biggest issue, besides, the potential problems associated with producing 1600 feet of vinyl in a few short runs, is even if you're able to spend 10 hours on site per night, I think you would be doing quite well if you can get 6 productive hours. By time you add in all of your costs, including travel back and forth to the site, meals on-site, proper surface preparation, setting up and tear-down of scaffolding, harnesses and related safety equipment, clean-up and waste disposal, edge treatment & sealing of the graphics, inspections, etc., your labor costs alone become much higher than a typical retail job. And don't forget that they wanted it yesterday. So, in addition to the double time for working nights and weekends, I probably would double my normal graphics cost too - hmmm, maybe I'm getting closer to that $35K than I initially thought
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Neil, I agree I could get the four prints for around $16,000 but what sort of mark-up would you put on that to start with? My usual minimum is 30%, another $5000.
Install would be an absolute nightmare with absolutely NO room for error. Any mistake would cost you a new print plus repairing and repainting the wall! It is not a forgiving metal surface. They are painted plasterboard (Gyprock) walls. The masking tape we have used so far has all ready pealed paint and paper layers off the first wall. We can fix with paint tho and won't tape the bottom of the other walls.
Another problem is the walls are not rectangular as on the overall design pic I posted. The entry ramp ceilings slope down and the floor slopes down too at a different angle in a series of 4 long steps. The design starts 4" above the guard rail up to the ceiling. The print would have to fit the size and shape exactly before instalation. NO WAY could you trim it on the wall.
Plus the architect's design did not fit the four walls and had to be "adapted" to size and shape as we scaled on her drawing.
If a crew of four could install one wall in a night without a hitch, how much would that cost you in overtime? Plus what would you mark that up at? Now you are starting to see the $20/sqft quote!
They probably didn't want the job anyway. Too many unforseen hassles.
Anne, the mall is only 5 minutes from me. Two hours each way was the time I said it would take to pick you up on Sunday from the Airport.
Mall work at night is a PITA. Just organising the working hours and security arrangements took time. Fortunately I've done a work there before over the years and know the management personally. Don't have to do the "Induction Course" again and have the $20M insurance required.
First night, just after closing time, the mall was evacuated for a hoax bomb scare! There were police everywhere! Vicky and I sat on the footpath for over an hour waiting to get back in even just to get our gear.
Last night, they forgot to isolate the timers on the lights for us working on the ramps. At 10pm the main flood lights switched off! Took a while to get that sorted out!
Anyway, progress is good. We have the background designs on both walls of the first ramp in two nights and started marking in the detail, leaves, dots etc. Looks like these "white" patterns are going to need 3 coats though. Even so, we still look like cutting the job out in 10 continuos nights especially with Anne's help towards the end.
Will post some pics tomorrow.
[ October 07, 2008, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Jon Butterworth ]
posted
Oops sorry my mistake on the time to and from site!!
5 Minutes is good, I can crawl back to your place to sleep in the morning. I may be a tad jet lagged the first night
Looking forward to meeting Vicky and Sue and doing my very first Walldog session with you guys!!
John I'm bringing my site safe passport with me, it covers all the Osh regulations here so hopefully it will cover me somewhat in Oz. I have an NZ Westfield passport too, shall I bring that?
-------------------- Anne McDonald 17 Karnak Crescent Russley Christchurch 8042 New Zealand
"I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure" Posts: 877 | From: Christchurch | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Everything is not "Cut and dry" is it.... Good luck Jon, I'm sure you're gonna do a fine job, I'm happy for you, I really am, these kind of Jobs are rare have fun.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Hey amigo, I think you'll doing FABULOUS, I like your style. When you have the skills, why not get paid for it. Sure most can print their own or have a partner who has a big printer and knock it out for them, but the bottom line is...how much goes into your pocket?
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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