posted
This morning I step from office to house for five minutes, only to return and find that a customer has picked up his $50 worth of signs without paying. A quick phone call to get him back to pay nets only his indifferent attitude that he "might" be able to make it in today. Otherwise, he will be out of town for most of the week, i.e., unavailable.
I'm too angry to give any details of the irrelevant backstory to this, so I'll just ask the question:
What would you do?
And no--we aren't close enough that he had a right to do this.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Put a "back in 5 minutes" sign on the door & lock it before ya walk to the house.
Tell him you can take his credit card info over the phone so he doesn't have to come the whole way back to the shop or remember to write & mail a check.
No, he didn't have a right to do this. But how long was he suppose to wait hoping you were coming back?
Be glad that this time it was a customer picking up his order & not someone walking off with something more important or valuable.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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What kind of business is he in? Just head over to his place and help yourself to about 2 grand worth of products.... tell him you might or might not be in to pay soon... you might be out of town a while... or if he wants you can just call it even.
After he pays, return his products.
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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I always leave lights on, door locked and a sign in window. Be right back, gone to lunch, gone for coffee or working on job site. To get to the shop they must drive right by sliding glass door in the back of the house and you will hear them when they drive by.
Then again just don't leave the items where it may be readly seen.
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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he stole product from you.. His indifference shows he really don't care..call the fuzz and bust his rotten butt.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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Lectures on locking doors well taken, but house is only 30' from office and 99.9% of my customers in that past 11 years realize that's where I am because there WAS a sign on the door that SAYS that's where I am. And he knew that. He's just an *******.
I did think about the police angle!!! That would be hilarious!!! But I definitely won't go that route.
You guys are making me feel much better!!! By the way --- I think I know where these signs are going to be come tomorrow.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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He should have them zip tied to his fence tomorrow--they aren't very big.
They may just be gone when he comes home, but I'm not 100% sure where his property is. I have an idea tho. And his address!!!
I may be small, but I'm scrappy!!!
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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from this point forward.. he would pay an extra 5 bux for every order he ever made.. guaranteed,,,
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
If he orders signs again add 10% to your usual price. It's called &%$#@ tax
He sounds like a most unpleasant fellow. Do you have a video surveillance so you can see your workspace when you do pop over to your home?
My mother set up a very basic system in her store, it didn't actually record anything but looked the part and it did deter a lot of petty thefts. My 2c worth
-------------------- Anne McDonald 17 Karnak Crescent Russley Christchurch 8042 New Zealand
"I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure" Posts: 877 | From: Christchurch | Registered: Sep 2006
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By my former post, I meant to be grateful he took only the sign, and not some tools or anything else readily removable...it could have so easily been so much worse.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I run a pretty loose ship in a fairly small town. People come and get stuff when I am not here all the time.
I always leave a note or instructions (sign is in office, please leave check on counter) on the door if I will be out, and I always call to try to set up a pick-up time first. And I give them their total then so they can be prepared to pay when they get here.
People get their stuff and leave a check or cash in a designated spot. I have only had maybe two people take stuff and not leave payment. They usuallt send a check within a few days.
It works OK for me, sometimes even better than the people who come to get things when I am here and miraculously forget their check book. I'm talking signs for regulars. If they are a slow-pay type I would not leave the signs in the office, but meet them in person.
It sounds like your client was in a hurry as he is going out of town. It's not OK that he took the signs and then blew you off on the phone, but I am sure he will pay you ASAP once he gets back in town.
I have had signs sit here for up to three months waiting! And I waited about 10 months one time to be paid $75 from a new client who came to get her banner but was in a big hurry so I told her it was OK for her to mail me a check.
I wouldn't take his signs down just yet. He might be the one who calls the cops!
Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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at this point here is nothing you can do but wait. "might" translated means never.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6737 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have the same thing with my clients as Jill. And out of the 15 years in business I have only had 2 problems with people paying. (maybe that's because I have a 2nd degree blackbelt though, dunno ) I would be willing to be that only about 30% of my clients pay me when I give them the signs. As Rick says, relax man, you are going to put yourself in the hospital with a heart attack. If he was the type of guy that you thought would rip you off why are you doing work for him in the first place?
Ooooohhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm.
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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Seriously, having got that kind of attitude over the phone from this scumbag, I would call the cops on him. What he did was theft, no question.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Derri and Jill, you are right on. I have a pretty loose and open shop policy.
The anger over this has nothing to do with the money, it's the proverbial principle. Plus this is just one of those customers who feels it his job get under your sking, even going so far as to walk you thru every step of even the most bone-headely simple layouts as if you just learned how to type the day before he got there!
The anger also comes from the ridiculous backstory of this guy just pushing my buttons for two weeks straight over this sign and then he does this.
Anyway, I have anger issues sometimes...
But my decision has been reached ...
$50 actually is a small amount, a small amount to let slip for awhile, because I know that he is only doing this as a way (in his twisted mind) to teach me a lesson. He tries to demean people in every way he can--I think because he once had a very successful business in town that has left him fairly comfortable. So whether he pays or not (and I suspect he will, with his trademark overbearing attitude) it gives me a perfect excuse next time to be rid of him or refer him to one of the other sign shops in town and tell him that this is not the way we do business.
I needed an out and for $5 worth of plastic and vinyl, he gave it to me.
It's not my preferred method of flying off the handle and making a total idiot of myself, but it's the one that has worked best for me over the year!!!
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Russ McMullin: Isn't it called theft if someone comes in without your being there, and takes something that doesn't belong to them?
I don't exactly how the laws are in the state that this occured but, in the state of Kentucky, If a person enters a BUILDING with the intent to committ a crime, then he has committed a burglary which is a felony. Entering into an area which the person has no right to be is criminal tresspassing. There are different levels. Each one depends on the level of privacy that a person would assume. Such as going into a fenced area would be a higher level. Just a simple theft would only be a misdermeanor not committed in an officers presence which an officer would not be able to make an arrest.
It would probably come down to the police advising to take out a warrent on the person.
If it was me, around here you can call the police and have a report made by phone and obtain a police report #. Then, if you have all the person's info, take out a warrent on the person. I would really try for the burglary. If you do not have all his info, call the police they SHOULD be able to provide the info so you can take out a warrent.
posted
Come on people, make business decisions with your heads, not your hearts. Just give him a few days and if he doesn't show up with payment. $50 isn't worth the negative energy and backlash. Yes you could file a police report and have him arrested but in the long run you'd probably lose a lot of business. I also agree with Curtis; tack on an additional $10 or so to subsequent orders for a PIA fee.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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PS I forgot to mention that there is nothing worth taking in my office, that's why it's always unlocked! No plotters, no equipment, no tools. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I bit my tongue while he tried to play all nice and sweet. So tired of this guy. Since he did pay (guess he lied about being out of town just to irk me) I'll just play it by ear and next time add the PIA tax-!!! And hide the signs!!!
Still, it irks me. Good thing we can all come here to vent, where no one actually gets hurt, insulted or arrested-!!!
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Doug Allan: and hiding some embarrassing typo's in his next job
I would get myself into so much trouble doing this if I had my own printer. Tiny text, similar color to the background behind it, maybe just enough transparency for it to barely show up. Nobody would ever see it unless they studied it up close and for a good long time.
On the other hand, when people do start discovering these little easter eggs, it could become one of those things where people expect it all the time and they start looking at everything you do just to see if there's a funny hidden message somewhere.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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i work from the house, and my shop is 50 ft from it. the only easily accessed door to it is on the side that faces the house. that being said, that door is usually unlocked or wide open. i also do some vinyl work on the house carport, since the plotter and computer are in the house. on the wall near the door i have a white plastic sort of in/out office thing you see on doctor offices so the can put your file in it. on it its say: A SIGN MINT PLEASE LEAVE NOTES OR PAYMENTS IN THIS CONTAINER. THANK YOU. so i never feel ripped if the money aint there, i call and ask them....WHEN CAN I EXPECT PAYMENT?
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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There's a printshop in the neighboring town who runs his pickup and delivery exactly the same way!
Si,
You and my wife would have blast ripping me on that question!!!
This customer's most irritating trait is that he wants to stand directly between me and the computer screen while I do his layouts, insisting on scaling everything in tiny, tiny increments until he's got it right back to where I had it in the first place!!!
The PIA (aka PITA) tax should begin to cover the liability he brings with him.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Michael Gene Adkins: This customer's most irritating trait is that he wants to stand directly between me and the computer screen while I do his layouts, insisting on scaling everything in tiny, tiny increments until he's got it right back to where I had it in the first place!!!
The PIA (aka PITA) tax should begin to cover the liability he brings with him.
Make a sign above your computer that says "Dear Customer, You do realize you are currently being billed my going shop rate of $xx per hour. Carry on. "
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Don't let the customer watch you design on the computer. Anything under $100, have the customer pay up front. Lock the shop door while you're out.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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"This customer's most irritating trait is that he wants to stand directly between me and the computer screen while I do his layouts"
You're thread title asked the question, "What would you do?"
The first thing is not let the guy stand behind me doing the design.
And there are about a dozen other things that I would have done differently, also. Mainly...not getting raging mad. Life is way too short to allow someone else to control my emotions.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Fire him. Probably worth the fifty bucks. Consider yourself lucky that it wasn't any more! Put a $50.00 dollar reward ad in your local newspaper for the culprits that stole the signs.
[ September 30, 2008, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: J & N Signs ]
-------------------- Mario G. Lafreniere (Fergie) J&N Signs Winter did show up! Posts: 1257 | From: Chapleau, Ontario | Registered: Jun 1999
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I don't know about you guys, but I've had a couple of customers **** me off when they came & paid their bill............usually when they owe you money, they avoid you. It's often worth $50 or more just to NOT have them as an active customer!
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 475 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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GET THIS: I have my primary computer setting on a table because I just can't handle sitting all day, and he LITERALLY tries to stand between me and the screen! It's almost as funny as it is annoying!
Normally I'm a nice guy and fairly tolerant because I like money. And yes, I got paid. And yes, I got mad (not to his face). But it is interesting to see how everyone would handle this situation. We can all learn some things here. Plus it is great to be able to vent here so you don't ultimately do something foolish. Like not locking the office door.
Like I said, the PITA tax will be my approach with him. Plus I will never hurry on a sign for him. He'll be done in the order his job was taken.
If he had not paid, the $50 would have been worth it to see him gone.
And yes, life is too short to allow any kind of stress to get to you.
Only twice have customers pushed me to the breaking point. Once I got so mad I couldn't even remember walking across the yard and threatening to do whatever it was I was threatening to do. Of course he was threatening me first so it was quite a different story.
It ain't worth it.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Alot of good advice and quite the variety of opinions has transpired here, the most obvious is fact you aren't ridding yourself of this customer, excuse me, a customer deserves your respect, so I'll assume your version is the truth and step out on a limb here and also consider this person the bad guy, hence he's the PITA...back to it, I'd fire this pita and never look back, as delightful and entertaining as charging a pita charge is, it like the preverbial wind, will eventually enlighten more than just him, your other customer base will catch wind of it and be left to always wonder if the price you're charging them includes a pita charge as well...if you don't practice such a method, you'll never have to be put on the spot someday w/a good customer on that particular subject and left w/descision as to lie or not, which is also taboo...I'd not entertain such an idea, rather, I'd be up front and inform them your company can no longer do business w/them, the reason, past performances...and let it go....
To put it in another view, is $385 a month for high blood pressure medicine and another $290 for heart medicine worth putting up w/his brand of doing business? That is a viable question you should answer for yourself, like me, you sound as if anger and intimidation was tool of doing business when set upon w/problems such as these, sure, I'll be first to tell you, I used my fists to settle all arguements in the past, and now those figures a month are my reality and will be till the day I die, because I didn't have the sense to not get mad and let the adrenalin take over...of course it felt good at the time, but longterm effects also included customers that were terrified to do business w/me, something that I found out years down the road and definitely to late to benefit from it's discovery...cool your jets, rid yourself of negative notions and thoughts, if something positive can't come from it, rethink relationship and end it, be done w/constant worry, it's not just the immediate reponses that will harm you, it's the constant reminder that keeps your blood boiling, which isn't condusive to good health later, when you'll need it the most, besides, it's the better man to step aside....my two cents worth, I know, it looks like a $1.40, sorry...
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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mike, the PROBLEM IS YOU, MR NICE GUY))))you shoulda, coulda, woulda PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE THE 1ST TIME HE GOT INTO YOURE SPACE!!!!!! iam a PITA about people TOUCHING MY MONITOR!!!!! nothin P.O.'s more then some doo doo putin his FINGER ON MY MONITOR!!!!!! I DONT DO IT, & DONT LIKE ANYONE ELSE DOIN THAT!!! they come here and i start to do them a lay out.... as soon as they reach their hand out to point at whats on the screen, i politely say,"you can point but you touch that screen and iam gona break youre finger." and then its eye contact, and i got a big smile on my face!!!!!!!!! they dont get that close EVER AGAIN!!!!! its called "setting boundaries." iam same way if iam havin a conversation with some one, and they get to close........i put a finger in their chest, and gently but with pressure, tell them please dont do that!!!! MY SPACE IS MY SPACE.....
[ October 01, 2008, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Is it a PITA charge if you are actually charging him for the time he stands with you altering the design? Charge by the quarter hour or part there of and let all of your customers know that's how you charge.
That's not PITA that's a good way of getting paid for your time
-------------------- Anne McDonald 17 Karnak Crescent Russley Christchurch 8042 New Zealand
"I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure" Posts: 877 | From: Christchurch | Registered: Sep 2006
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The tax is a legal requirement on your part, not something to administer as a penalty when you feel like it. Should you be faced with an audit, you could become real angry when you're faced with the bottom line. Please be fair to yourself.
Another tactic would be to see how long it takes to make this person your friend, someone that would not want to abuse you. Imagine if you had thrown in an extra sign with a note so it's clear that it wasn't a mistake? Give him something to demonstrate that you are in control. When you get angry, you're giving him control over you. This might not be someone to get rid of, it might be a gift for you.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6737 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rick, the 'PITA tax' is not an actual tax, nor is it a separate line item on an invoice. It is simply that mental note that you know a customer is going to be a problem so you bump up their prices by about 10-15% in order to cover yourself for the extra aggravation...
I have a customer who can order $5,000 worth of signs in 5 minutes and I don't hear from him until he picks them up.... but I also have a customer that every $50 sign takes at least 3 proofs, multiple phone calls, and a couple visits. The second one is going to pay a higher price than normal....
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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) I would be willing to be that only about 30% of my clients pay me when I give them the signs. As Rick says, relax man, you are going to put yourself in the hospital with a heart attack. If he was the type of guy that you thought would rip you off why are you doing work for him in the first place? ![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
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