posted
Ever since I can remember I wanted to be an artist. All my report cards in primary school stated I spent too much time day dreaming and doodling. When leaving high school I desired to be a commercial artist, I didn't know where to begin, so I worked at odd jobs including my father's metal fabricating shop where I had worked since the age of 13. I stumbled across sign painting when I was 21. I enrolled in the signwriting program at George Brown College in Toronto. I threw myself into it, I loved the design craft and artistry it required and the hope some day was to have my own business and live the quiet life. It was never a lucrative vocation or a steady one. I had made attempts to leave the business a couple of times, each time returning to the sign business with renewed passion and optimism for a brighter future. Over the last 20 years I have attempted to hone and diversify my craft to a fine polish. I'm just beginning to understand what true creativity is. However it has been a struggle convincing a "homogenous - instant" society on the importance of good design and the value of quality craftsmanship. As of late I've used the same marketing design and craft approach to architectural sculpture. However, I'm burnt out. I'm not sure if it has been the repetitive cycle of feast or famine. The thousands of solitary hours perfecting the craft (missing my kids grow up) missing deadlines with labor intensive projects or the faltering belief the world values symmetry, poetry and art. Someone mentioned to me the other day I've put too much art into ordinary mediums. I think they're right. Whatever the reason, I'm finished. I'm applying to the O.P.P. (Ontario Provincial Police) They are looking for candidates with life experience. It's something I have considered for a couple of years. A way to rejoin society and serve to help make it a better place. I still have scheduled projects to finish and room to add a few more as the application process to the O.P.P. is a slow merging one. I'll still craft and design on the side. I just won't do it for a living.
Marching with the commissioners own pipes and drums of the O.P.P.
posted
Wow Shane, that's quite a change in profession!
I understand the need to bolt in a completely different direction though. I do it often on weekends in the form of a whole lotta camping.
Our profession IS intense. Diversion is important to avoid burnout. I'm nearly edging on it again. Business is relentless, constant, folks needing things yesterday.
However I know it's about balance. With employees, it was easy to delegate so one isn't overwhelmed. Without that, it's a different game. I'm having to constantly 'explain' when and why. And stop for my son and home and whatever else is going on. I live in many worlds. It's a tough balance.
I put too much thought into every detail most don't see as well. I'm always tweeking and fixing what the customer is already happy with. I do it for me but it puts many projects way over what they're worth.
So, just so you know, I get it. I hope your new direction has you coming back to your roots for enjoyment on many occasions! It will be nice to use that for your playtime for a change.
All the best! And don't you dare walk away from your true passion. You simply are too good at it.
posted
OMG, Shane... I'm at a loss for words my friend. You are one of the most incredibly talented people on the planet. Yet I fully understand your pain, frustrations, disappointments and situation. I wish you the very best in your new life. There's no telling how you will still be able to utilize your talents and skills in the future. Just keep your options open; I know you will. Oh, and can you put in a good word for me?
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
It takes a lot of guts to step away from something you've committed your life too. Certainly it is a huge loss to our profession, but you need to follow your dream. No matter what level of skill we achieve in our chosen fields, if it's no longer a joy to start a new day, maybe it's time for a change. Heck, we all have bad days, even bad months. I know you've been wrestling with this for some time and I applaud your decision. Your legacy will continue to inspire anyone that sees your masterful work. You will never lose your skills and your attitude and outlook will continue to inspire, regardless of the path you take. All the very best in your new career. See you in Yarrow.
posted
That's awesome . . . I really admire you for being able to take such a step in a different direction . . . You guys look awesome too!
But don't burst my bubble . . . I still want to believe somehow the world does believe in and value symmetry, poetry and art . . . and even asymmetrical stuff.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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You've been at a crossroads for some time now. I certainly felt it when we spoke in the last while and also when we were at your workshop. This is quite a change of direction!
I have a feeling that no matter what you do to make a living your art will always be a part of your life. I hope you do continue it on the side and that it always gives you satisfaction.
See you in a couple of weeks!
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Good luck Shane, no matter where it takes you your talent remains a part of you. There can be art in any vocation. It's funny though, my brother's a cop, and way more artisic than me, he's always envious of what I do for a living, but of course he doesn't see all that's involved.
posted
What a bummer! It's sad to hear that you are leaving the craft when you represent all the good things about our profession, but it's nice to know that you are following your heart.
Maybe you can continue to express your creativity in personal projects. It would be tragic for all that stuff in you to go untapped.
I hope that you are still coming to Dan's and I will get to meet you.
May only the best follow you, no matter what you do. Keep us informed.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I too hope to meet you in Yarrow, and hope you choose to hold another workshop in Creemore this Spring.
I don't know your sense of humor, so as I read the post, & saw the top half of the photo... I only hoped it was a spoof like one I was sent by a client a few years back.
I see now that it is no such spoof, so I wish you well on your path & certainly hope the admissions process goes through without delay.
posted
Your skills are some of the best I have seen in the sign business. No doubt, you will apply that dedication for perfection in anything you do, so the provincial police will be no different. Ive been thinking along the same lines for a long time now. Not being a police officer, but taking another path other than signwork. You have my respect for taking that leap. Good luck to you.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Every time I hear a story like this from a talented professional it usually means the money wasn't there for them, especially for the time and effort put into it.
Art is never really appreciated at least financially. That's why I try to do both ends, sell what needs to be sold and jump at the chances where a higher end sign can be sold and for the money it deserves. I have painted canvases all my life and never even considered trying to sell them. Disappointment doesn't sit well with me.
I hope you truly like the change in your career instead of settling for something else on the hopes that will make you happy.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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-------------------- Catharine C. Kennedy CCK Graphics 1511 Route 28 Chatham Center, NY 12184 cck1620@taconic.net "Look at me, Look at me, Look at me now! I't's fun to have fun, But you have to know how!" Posts: 2173 | From: downtown Chatham Center, NY | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Thanks for the well wishes and comments, What a fine group of people I share the profession with. My work will continue to be my passion even if I'm not making a living with it. My other ambition in life has been to be out in the world helping people. The opportunity would pass me by if I remained squirreled away in my studio. It's the balance Donna talks about. I'll keep my studio and selfishly work on projects for my own enjoyment. I'm still offering the workshop, it might be winter instead of spring I'll post the dates when events unfold. René suggested I offer my design services to the trade on different levels on a educational format. that's something I would be very interested in. The friends I've made in this business are for life and I'm looking forward to seeing them and making new ones in Yarrow.
And Doug, there is nothing funny about men in skirts
posted
Never met you Shane - but felt compelled to respond as I have a pretty high opinion of your work. I think you are one outstanding designer and sign artist. Your work caught my attention more than a few years ago - and your innovation in design makes you - in my humble opinion - one of the better designers whose work I've had the privilege of seeing.
In my mind, the 3rd place you got for Mad & Noisy River Gallery in this year's Commercial Building Signs category in SOT was a travesty and it deserved first place by far - and I say that even knowing Joe McKernan fairly well (he and Danthonia got first place) An OUTSTANDING rendition and so cleverly done. Just one word: memorable.
But I think I understand what you are going through. I had to leave behind the craftsmanship too a few years back . . . for the sake of profit. Still working that out - but it is a slow transition. I can get my creative ya-ya's out elsewhere - and live the life I want to live - if not shackled by a very demanding profession.
In this business, if you don't grow, you have a better than 50% chance of burning out and leaving the craft - in my opinion.
The question is: Will I be happier working for another person - or was that the real joy all along?
It's clearly your choice - and I wish you all blessings and peace in your decision.
These words from one of my fave songs - you never get the answer in the lyrics. You supply that:
Once in a vision I came on some woods And stood at a fork in the road My choices were clear Yet I froze with the fear Of not knowing which way to go One road was simple Acceptance of life The other road offered sweet peace When I made my decision My vision became my release.
Good luck . . . but still 'keep your hands busy' either way. Don't waste your God given talents.
[ September 24, 2008, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Jay Allen ]
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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You are someone I really look up to as an artist. Everything I've seen you do has been done well. I have to agree with Jay on his assessment of The Mad and Noisy Gallery sign. That sign is what convinced me to go to your workshop in Creemore, which greatly enhanced my recognition of the depth to which solid design needs to be taken and gave me some fresh ways of thinking through the creative process.
I well know the struggle between family, friends, funds, and fun. I've often said that our business goes from feast and famine to snack and starve. There are a number of very good sign people who made the decision you have in order to get something set and regular, which goes a long way toward easing the stress of making a living. Some have taken jobs outside the industry, some have gone to work for other sign companies but they all in some way kept their hand in the sign field, allowing them both to support their family and enjoy the creative outlet they crave.
Most who know me are aware of my love for aviation. I usually visit with the pilots in the cockpit after a flight. One pilot asked me what kind of work I did. After I told him, he said: "I wish I could build signs for a living." I replied, "I wish I could get paid to fly." He countered: "After a while, it's just like driving a bus." It made me appreciate what I get to do a bit more, that the grass wasn't always greener on the other side of the [airport] fence.
I've had offers inside and outside the sign industry and some have been very tempting. There's been times I didn't know what to do, which way to jump. A couple years ago, I decided to embrace the sign business and try to run with some things, which is one reason I've gone to so many workshops. I don't have a router but I bought two site licenses for EnRoute 4, one for me and one for my friend Parker who does have a MultiCam. I want to be able to speak his language when I spec something for him to produce.
Everyone's journey is different and each has to decide what is going to work best for his situation. I wish you the best on yours and look forward to visiting with you in Yarrow.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Wow Shane! This is a shock for me! I didn't realize that everyone (including you) were all at a crossroad in our business careers at the workshop in April. It's great that you are heading into that field of work. It's always nice to have a change once in awhile. Glad to hear that you are still going to do your fine art on the side! I always enjoy looking at your work!
I wish you all the best! Keep intouch!
-------------------- Pam Edmunds Just For You Signs & Design 64 Bruce Road 17 Tara, Ontario Posts: 68 | From: Tara, Ontario | Registered: May 2008
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posted
This news was like a punch in the stomach, and I was in a depressed mood most of the day. There are some great sign designers out there, but in my book your work is the best of the best. Your dimensional pieces just blow me away, and it makes me sick that the industry hasn't rewarded you accordingly. I wish you all the best in your new venture. I know it was a hard choice to make.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I am not a "regular" on here, but I do pop in now and again. I must say, your work is just stellar, and I admit to feeling a bit of sadness that you will be stepping into another career. I completely understand, as I have been there myself with my artwork career. Artistic signage, like hand-lettered calligraphy (which I do) are dying arts, and I find myself sad whenever someone of your obvious talent steps back.
I admire your decision to do what makes you happy, I am just disappointed that the average person doesn't appreciate the workmanship and artistry that you have honed, enough to properly compensate you financially (though I know that's not the only reason for your decision!).
I so admire those of you who are experts and ARTISTS in the signmakers' craft.. and often have considered getting into it more... but wow. I wish people understood and fully appreciated the work and artistry in some of the gorgeous work I've seen here... I find myself admiring signs all the time, knowing the work involved. When asked to do a sign, I usually defer the client to an experienced signmaker because I know the level of commitment necessary to do a great job...
Wonderful body of work, you have much to be proud of...
-------------------- Michele Sommers Sommers End Originals www.sommersend.com Front Royal, VA Posts: 17 | From: Front Royal, VA | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Move on Shane. Although you have the talent,skill and proof of your efforts,to fall back on any time in the future,jump the fence to something new and have it your way. Your stuff is a delicious treat to behold. You will always know...you made the grade. Good luck,be happy.
Jack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
In simple words, "It takes a lot of Guts to do what you are doing, Courage and Common Sense. Your work is second to none, it's just that the signs you have produced are like Fine Art, and everyone knows that a lot of artists find it hard to make ends meet. Bravo for what you are doing, and I know you will still get to use your skills, so that feeling of satisfaction will always be there.
Best of luck Shane.
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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David Harding, I love a great story as an analogy. Your aviation reference was truly accurate . . . the grass only SEEMS greener on the other side of the fence.
He can always come back. Or, hell, look at Tramp and take note of how he's done in two vocations . . .
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I hope to meet all of you some day. I have to say reading these posts puts a lump in my throat. Thanks for your words I take them all to heart. Jack, that's the same mindset I have. Sometimes you have to shake things up to move forward. Signcrafting will be apart of the new chapter.
I'm heading down to CONSAC and the beaver Dam on Saturday afternoon, maybe I'll see some of you there.
posted
I was really shocked to read this, your work is such a breath of fresh air, its beautiful.
I relate to what Jay was writing, you can easily become a victim of your own success.
You get started in something you feel passionate about, and turn out some good work, the business grows and with that changes direction, and becomes very commercial to meet the local market.
The whole time you strive to change direction to make more rewarding signs, but are bogged down in the daily grind of paying overheads wages, machine costs etc etc. The fun part dissappears.
I was taken in by your posts, work and contacted you about a workshop, because it looked like you had found that niche and were exploiting it to the full and producing work on a daily basis that you could be immensely proud of..... a perfect world
I hope you fill your life with whatever you are looking for, am looking forward to meeting you in a couple of weeks in Yarrow.
posted
Henry, please don't be discouraged by my exit. We started our business with a box of brushes and a skill saw in a conservative market with vinyl and plywood the comfortable norm. Most of the signs we have produced in the past few years are for the average business and carry a typical price tag of $5000. - 15,000. in a size that I can carry myself. It's been a long haul finding my own answers get to to that point. I'm working on a front door commission for a local private home for $40,000. they agreed to the price without hesitation. The market is there, I'm just out of gas. Look forward to meeting you in Yarrow
sometimes we all need a break in life, time to just get away and do what you want. Even if it means working with a totally different class of folks in another work world. Who knows you might like it, maybe love it. But you will know the door to your passion is always there.
So...where is this $40K door, I have some gas left
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Those door projects do exist. While a marketing guy at Architectural Fabricators, we cut and fabricated designs from Brass, Bronze & Stainless steel elements for interior design shops and also some sign companies in the San Francisco bay area. The client base usually comes to your door when they know your product is available. Sometimes the receivables can be a problem which could be solved by using a factoring agency. There are several door & gate shops around the Hunters Point district that had hefty clients that liked to spend money as well. Swan Sign, company off 6th st. in the city does a lot of these projects.
Jack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Shane, I haven't met you either, but I certainly can relate to the sense of feeling out of gas.
A big part of it is that there is so little public appreciation and acknowlegement for the work we do. It's NOT enough to have clients gush over your work; people gush over mediocre signs and rarely seem to be able to tell the difference.
A competent sign maker can have a tremendous positive impact on the visual environment of community he or she lives in. Better signs beget better signs, if only because they are compared to mediocre work that was the "acceptable norm". This upgrading of commercial signs, one at a time, can bootstrap a whole town or shopping district by making it more visually appealing as a whole. This is how I see the overall value of my work in my town - but I have no expectations of having anyone else in the community acknowledge that. It happens to all of us, and it leaves a bitter taste after a while, whether you want it to or not. We have to be our own worst critics of our work, but we have to be our own cheering section, too, cause we sure as hell don't get that anywhere else.
It comes down to this: How much time and effort and study and passion can you pour into a career that the general public either takes for granted or doesn't give a sh*t about? To quote a line from Atlas Shrugged: You are tossing pearls before swine and not even getting a pork chop in return.
Sorry to sound so negative; I'm not usually. Seeing a major talent leave this industry, describing some of the feelings I often have myself, gets me down. Shane, best of luck in wherever your path takes you.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I burn out about every 3 or 4 months but I don't know how to do anything else - let me know if the Provincial Police open an Atlanta chapter - guys look cool in kilts........
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Reading this post has made me feel like meeting a soul mate that only has a week to live.
Shane, my openly expressed admiration for your work leaves no embarrasment attached to it. I have never heard a bad word said about your work, but more importantly, about you. I too have doubts... every day, but soldier on, knowing there are people like yourself to assist and guide me.
I followed your work, starting with your blogs. I got excited with the proposed Australian workshops. That fell over. There was always Maui. That fell over. So I would head to Creemore, maybe the next or the next or the next workshop. Now it seems that has fallen over too.
Each and evry person has something to offer on this board, but you my friend are one of a handful of the best in the world.
In the Olympics of sign masters, Shane Durnford... you are a triple Gold.
I guess all athletes need to retire at some stage when their body no longer can take it, or there is someone faster, more qualified. Sad thing is, I see no one lurking in the shadows. Your "records" will stand for many years to come.
Go forward my good friend, you have earnt it. Like the prodigal son, I know you will be back.
Maybe by that stage I will have progressed to the stage that you will be able to hone rather than develop my skills.
God bless.
-------------------- Gregg Sydney Signworks (02) 9837 1198 Schofields NSW Australia Posts: 368 | From: Schofields | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Shane... You are one of the most incredibly talented Guy , also admire you work. Yet I understand your pain, frustrations, and situation. I wish you the best in your new life. I hope one day I had the chance of meet you.
Sal Cabrera
-------------------- Sal Cabrera Signs By Sal New Freedom , PA
The goal of Yesterday will be the Stating Point of Tomorrow! Posts: 686 | From: New Freedom , PA US | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I'll still be in Creemore and have a studio. If any of you are up this way give me a call and drop in. My website will still be up including a new update I've been working on. I'm still going to have one final workshop this winter or spring and I'll still be producing designs and the odd sign project, maybe even a book. Either way, in time I'll be up to full steam and producing more stuff, just not full time. Gregg If your in the states, make your way up here. I'll make some time for you, passion like yours should have every possibility to flourish.
posted
No matter what occupation you choose you will have much to offer Shane. With your personality the Ontario Police will be gaining a real asset. As far as your art, your passion is yours and always will exist. I suspect by removing the pressure, it will be purer and stronger and will once again begin to burn within. I hope they place you working in an area where your gentle soothing qualities can work their best magic. Congratulations on having the courage to move ahead!
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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posted
I'm thinking that the most disheartening aspect of this post, is the indication that a giant talent has found this vocation to be somewhat less than rewarding, and giving of one's self to the max, has resulted in a feeling of being "out of gas".
This gives rise to the so-far unspoken thought: "Where does that leave the rest of us, in our quest to be the best that we can be?" If we aspire to become one of the best, is this a fruitless pursuit?
Perhaps it is a case of faraway pastures looking greener, and every vocation having negative aspects that aren't readily discerned until one becomes immersed. I really don't know, but I do wish you well, Shane, and sincerely hope that you'll find the switch to be both rewarding and satisfying.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Thanks Kelly, I agree, it'll come back. be great to see you again Toronto Saturday. Don't despair Ken, If I had the knowledge I have now, the road wouldn't have been so long and arduous. Think of my efforts as blazzing a trail, I just fell short of the journey. The workshops I offered were an attempt to pass this knowledge on to give a little shortcut to fellow signcrafters, hopefully leap frogging them ahead. It's been great to see some run with it. I have one more workshop left this spring and perhaps some more in the not so distant future.
It has been rewarding, thats why I'll be back, I'm just tired out
posted
Shane, Although we have not met I have admired your work for years. I'm not actually used to airing my private affairs in public but sometimes it might be worth it. A number of years ago I closed up my shop with the intention of saying goodbye to the business for good. I took a couple of weeks holidays (first time in 20 or so years) and went off to the U.K. where I visited a friend and did some touring. When I got home I realized with an Huh Oh!...what have I done? in a kind of penny dropping moment, that I had been tired and burned out, nothing more. It can become an all encompassing thing and might even be a type of depression, which in turn could result in rash decisions. So careful....ask yourself how long has it been since I took sometime away or re-charged the batteries. To emphasize my point, France where the average worker gets between 4 and 6 weeks annual holidays, has one of if,not the most productive workforce in the E.U. Whatever you decide make it from an "informed" position....you know, the facts and good luck in whatever path you take!
posted
Hi Doug Thanks for your candidness. It has been a while since my last vacation and it's probably a large contributor to my burnout. It's cyclical as all of us in the business know, I've been through it many times. This time it just feels right to move on. I've been holed up making signs for 27 years. Time to try something new - I'll do both,. Like Kelly and others suggest it will only help my work improve, and I can always go back to it.
I travel to Ottawa periodically to visit my Daughter in University. I'd like to drop by and say hello. I'm a fan of your work.
posted
Wow! I don't know you either but have seen your work in Sign Craft Magazine, and i am in awe !!
We all have to listen to that "inner voice" and truly listen to it. As everyone has stated Shane, you can always come back to your God given talent, if you don't like the new road you've taken.
Best of luck to you my friend and I sure hope you'll add me to your workshop list (the next time you have one , please email me at debbsigns@hotmail.com)
P.s.The door is looking AWESOME!!Please post it when it is on your client's home ! Take good care!
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