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Can someone here show me the logic behind the Flat Screw and why exactly is it used in any application. I can't for the likes of me understand why this was invented before the Phillips screw or even invented at all. If at all possible that the cross was an every day occurrence or scenario and believe me this post has nothing what so ever to do with religion, why on earth was the Flat Screw invented? It is harder to control than the Phillips and it seems that whatever screw driver is used, it doesn't fit the slot. In todays world we have the Phillips. the Allen head and the star, so when are they gonna drop the single slotted screw which I believe never should have been made in the first place.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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so the wife can ruin anything that happens to have one of the screws you mention.....with a butter knife..as she attempts to fix said object. Butter knives dont have an x on them
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Around the first century, screw shaped tools became common, however, historians do not know who invented the first. Early screws were made from wood and were used in wine presses, olive oil presses, and for pressing clothes. Metal screws and nuts used to fasten two objects together first appeared in the fifteenth century.
In 1744, the flat-bladed bit for the carpenter's brace was invented, the precursor to the first simple screwdriver. Handheld screwdrivers first appeared after 1800.
In 1770, English instrument maker, Jesse Ramsden (1735-1800) invented the first satisfactory screw-cutting lathe. Ramsden inspired other inventors. In 1797, Englishmen, Henry Maudslay (1771-1831) invented a large screw-cutting lathe that made it possible to mass-produce accurately sized screws. In 1798, American David Wilkinson also invented machinery for the mass production of threaded metal screws.
In 1908, square-drive screws were invented by Canadian P. L. Robertson. Twenty-eight years before Henry Phillips patented his Phillips head screws, which are also square-drive screws.The Robertson screw is considered the "first recess-drive type fastener practical for production usage." The design became a North American standard, as published in the sixth edition of Industrial Fasteners Institute Metric and Inch Standards. A square-drive head on a screw can be better than a slot head because the screwdriver will not slip out of the screw's head during installation. The Model T car made by the Ford Motor Company (one of Robertson's first customers) used over seven hundred Robertson screws.
In the early 1930s, the Phillips head screw was invented by Henry Phillips. Automobile manufacturers now used car assembly lines. They needed screws that could take greater torque and could provide tighter fastenings. The Phillips head screw was compatible with the automated screwdrivers used in assembly line.
Ironically, there is a Philips Screw Company that never made Phillips screws or drivers. Henry Phillips died in 1958 at the age of sixty-eight.
History of Screws and Screwdrivers
By Mary Bellis, About.com
-------------------- Mike gatlinburg Sign Crafters Posts: 1051 | From: Gatlinburg, TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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And for some unknown reason (yeah right) because the Robertson screws were not invented in the USA, it looks like they will be pouted forever...
The square head screws are used here in every possible application up here. The only flat heads we ever see here are in products packed in the US. The first thing I always do when ever I buy something that requires some "put-together", that was packaged in US or China or in fact most places besides Canada... is throw away the little bag of screws and get my own. Joey, I understand your frustation, especially if you have to deal with this on a daily basis, I only get them occasionally and it drives me absolutely bonkers.
Robertson IS the way to go. You can put the screw on the bit ahead of time and will stay on unless you happen to knock it off. You can even point your drill downwards or sideways and it will stay on. They are way ahead of Phillips which is a distant second and all others have specific uses, Torks is GM and AllenKeys are mostly for machines and IKEA...
I never understood why the big American POUT about Robertson....
I brought a crate in Vegas last year, all assembled with square... of course I didn't bring my own screwdriver, and the only way I could open my box was to find a Canadian exibitor who had brought his toolbox !
I couldn't agree more.... flathead screws is SUPID
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Rene, I've used the Robertson screws extensively on any of my building projects where a Phillips could be used. I find they actually hold their shape better than most any screw head as well as the bit. On the engine in my 64, almost all the bolts are Allen heads. As I was working today inside the house it occurred to me that the flat screw has been a pain in my dupar forever and whether its an air conditioner or whatever mechanism which is in this home and must be repaired, there are flat screws which are a pain to remove or replace.
We only have so much time on this planet and I cannot see wasting it on trying to unscrew something so obsolete as this screw that should have been discarded years ago
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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Joey, I actually invented a tool that takes out damaged screws when you screw up the slot in those worthless screws! Damaged Screw Remover
-------------------- Tony Vickio The World Famous Vickio Signs 3364 Rt.329 Watkins Glen, NY 14891 t30v@vickiosigns.com 607-535-6241 http://www.vickiosigns.com Posts: 1063 | From: Watkins Glen, New York | Registered: Sep 2001
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. . . and lets not forget the alleged 'new' concept of a square bit needed for these new coated deck screws which are mostly the only screws that won't deteriorate in the new copper-treated lumber, but this screw looks a lot like a philips screw and I'm usually having to spend that extra minute to look closer to be sure and have the proper bit . . . something that USED to be a no-brainer is now made somewhat more bothersome by technology and ecology sans logic . . . there are so many groups to blame I don't know where to start . . . screw THEM!
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Joey, I've been using a newer type of deck screw, called Power-Pro, that has a star head, like a TORX. Our local hardware has started carrying them. They are made for outdoor use, are self-starting, and stay on the bit. I have yet to mess up a bit with them (one comes in each box).......unlike all the crappy Phillips bits that are so prevalent now. You know, the ones that round off their edges on the first 3 or 4 screws, and won't tighten well afterward.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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Sometimes a Phillips head screw can become damaged by using a driver that is too big or too small.
A quick fix for those who have a Robertson screwdriver is to use an appropriate size drill bit and drill into the centre of the damaged Phillips screw. This will allow you to use a Robertson driver that will seat all the way to the bottom of the slots in the head and 90% of the time makes it very easy to remove the damaged screw.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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All I can say is there must have been a total loss of commonsense back when the flat single slotted screw was invented. I understand the invent of screws and their uses whether wood or metal but cannot comprehend the logic of a single slotted unit which is what I asked about.
I'm glad to see that many here use other sources for screws just to avoid a problematic scenario that has been the prevalent choice for centuries throughout the world.
There are many things which go through my head daily and I've always asked others but no one ever takes me seriously like all who have answered this here in Letterville and I thank you. I'm really not a trouble maker and even though there are some who offer a fix, I find that things like this are not worth fixing but rather avoiding altogether.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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The slotted screw and driver was invented by Satan. What else can make you swear up a storm, make you lose your temper, and go ballistic? The devil likes that.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Thanks for the tip Dave! Just recently Vicki managed to mangle the heads of several philips heads screws assembling a metal stand. Over zealous use of a power drill stripped both the screws and philips driver provided!
Don't you love "quality" chinese steel!!!!
I was only able to remove them using an oversized new bit and high torque, low speed and lots of downward pressure.
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You'll all hate me for this answer, but it is the answer to the question:
Actually, there is many places where a slotted screw outperforms all others, for instance: just ask anyone who has tried to remove one from an automotive application, where seized up fasteners are quite common. When the slotted screw is very tight or has rusted, the wider tip of the appropriately sized screwdriver allows more surface area to contact the slot without slipping as you twist. In other words, push in and hold, turn, and usually you get the screw moving. If you are trying to get a phillips to do the same thing, the screwdriver can ride out more easily and you have a hard time pushing it in by hand to gain more force and leverage and holding power.
Ask any mechanic who's tried to get at a tricky to reach radiator hose clamp. Put a phillips head on the hose clamp and it's a real pain in the ass. No leverage. But a flat head on a clamp? Leverage kicks in and it's no problem. Trust me. Twenty years of experience speaking here.
So yes, though I hate them myself and never use them except in a tight spot where the phillips provides me no downforce, these screws have their place. It's about leverage, people.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Well, if logic is applied to the original question, I'd venture to guess that the single slotted screw was introduced simply because the limitations of machining technology at the time made it the best choice, and the most economical. There wasn't a great abundance of precicion screw-cutting machinery, and for it's time, it probably served the purpose. It's limitations only became apparent, when a better solution was thought up, and the state of machining advancement made it possible to make the superior product. Tools are like that....they evolve.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Thank you again MGA and Ken, I could understand the probables and limitations of yesterdays technology and as its put into other hands I'm beginning to understand more clearly. As far as the radiator clamp thingy MGA, I find that the clamps on my 64 do not have a screw but a clamp thingie which is installed and removed via a wuchamacallit pliers with a cut in the teeth for the end of the clamp to be pulled together. Most all of the screws you speak of for automotive services have both a single slot on the head as well as the head being removed by a drive. I've been building cars since I was a teenager and outside of those radiator clamps you mentioned I can't remember where a slotted screw or sheet metal screw are used on automobiles or maybe just my automobiles.
Oh well, thank you again MGA and Ken for your knowledge and replies
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
maybe that's why I hated working on my '62--all those screwed up screws!!! (don't make me go look under the hood!) HA!!!
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Yep Joey, I know . . . hence my exact words in my reply: . . . 'the alleged 'new' concept' . . . quite meant to imply rhetoric as well as sardonic intent within the written word . . . lol, or in other words . . . I meant it to be SARCASTIC towards the companies that push this stuff . . .
It seems the building supply places, at least here, are pushing them (the square) as never before, particularly the special-coated deck screws. I always found them to provide standard philips deck screws prior to the new lumber . . .
By the way, I think flat screws have been around since Noah fashioned the ark, but who am I?
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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He'd have given them to the monkeys to keep them busy.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Bob, I evolved as my paint cans use a Thumb Screw where I don't need a screwdriver, only my thumb and finger. Can you see how backwards some peoples kids are
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the slotted flat screw, has the basic same problem as computers. MOST PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY OPERATOR(of the screwdriver)ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've gone to square drive stainless for most workaday stuff.
But I still think the look of slotted, round-head brass screws, with the slots all oriented alike, gives a real classy look to a project. Especially wrought iron brackets.
-------------------- Steve Purcell Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking Cape Cod, MA
************************** Intelligent Design Is No Accident Posts: 900 | From: Cape Cod, MA | Registered: Oct 1999
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By the way, never underestimate the power of starter fluid (spray can) for loosening extremely rusted bolts and screws (from iron work). Had about 20 rusted, slotted-stove bolts/nuts to remove and no power source and was without my generator (otherwise the grinder might've been good, but still not as easy as the starter fluid!) Works much better than WD40.
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